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  #16  
Old June 7th, 2005, 06:16 AM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfisher
People define god as good/bad, to me everything is god , "The Good, the bad and the ugly" . Every thought EVERYTHING, act of making love is as much god as anything else. Some perform pooja to god thru bhajans some thru meditation some thru sex, everything is a pooja to god.

Read/Listen to Shivamanaspooja.

I dont see any logic why a prostitute cannot experience god (when he/she is part of god) As souls we have no gender (male/female) and so does god hence the concept of Shiva-Parvati forming Ardhanaarinateshwar, ..etc. The union signifies the soul becoming god again.

Tantuji thanks for that info. on tantra pretty interesting.
Kingfisherji, in all fairness to Landyabhai ... if you were to read him in context of this thread ... what he says makes sense. Just because prostitutes, gigolos and porn stars indulge in hours of sex does not qualify them as tantrics. Sex does not lead them to "oneness" with the universe, and partner or lead them to enlightenment. It takes more than sex.


Landyabhai's Yogis believe in the discipline of all pleasures by mode of penalty and punishment ... tantrics believe that pleasures can be a virtue if disciplined ... discipline of training and control! Tantrics believe sex worship works because sex is the greatest driving force in this our living world and tantric yogis use that force!

Vakil Sahib hesitates asking question on his mind ... if tantric yoga is so powerful a tool ... if tantric sidhis can achieve so much ... why is it not better known? Simple really ... much of our Hindu belief has been influenced by the sexual ethics of the Muslims and Christian religions. Tantrists in India are viewed as hedonists and perverts ... debauchee at the worst! This in a country where holy sex acts of worship are depicted on the walls of the most revered shrines! Go figure.

Dhurenderbhai, while orthodox Hinduism and Yogis of past and present made/make a virtue of asceticism, tantric Yogis seek illumination through the ecstasy of the senses ... therein lies the divergence. Tantrics believe that their discipline is a positive one as distinct from the negative discipline of the ascetic. Yogis worship the Gods ... Tantrics worship the partner. Yogis renounce the pleasures ... Tantric seeks to experience the most intense pleasure that can be tolerated and to maintain that ecstasy for as long as it can be held.

Enough ...
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  #17  
Old June 7th, 2005, 06:40 AM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by tantric_yogi

Dhurenderbhai, while orthodox Hinduism and Yogis of past and present made/make a virtue of asceticism, tantric Yogis seek illumination through the ecstasy of the senses ... therein lies the divergence. Tantrics believe that their discipline is a positive one as distinct from the negative discipline of the ascetic. Yogis worship the Gods ... Tantrics worship the partner. Yogis renounce the pleasures ... Tantric seeks to experience the most intense pleasure that can be tolerated and to maintain that ecstasy for as long as it can be held.

Enough ...
I disagree on this one....if Tantrics were only interested in ecstasy...then of course they are hedonists...but that is exoteric part...the esoteric part is the same as what Yogis do...but the essential difference being as you say...Yogis renounce..Tantriks accept

Please refer to my previous post
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  #18  
Old June 7th, 2005, 08:25 AM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
LandYA...how can you deny the possibility of a prostitute/gigolo/porn star being enlightened??

Nowhere in SBG or other scriptures, it says that the doors of the heavens are closed to prostitutes/gigolos/porn stars
Yaar DhurPai, I am not denying that Prostitutes/PornStars/Gigolos are not eligible to experience the Supreme in their lifetime ... I am asking whether any of these living entities using the Tantra technique (that you have mentioned) have achieved enlightenment ...

I havent come across ANY person who has achieved this state of supreme consciousness .... whereas I can name a few that by different means of Yoga (Bhakti Yoga included) have achieved enlightenment.

For example, 24 Jain Tirthankaras have achieved Nirvana purely through meditative yoga. Even Lord Buddha has attained enlightenment. Similarly, if you believe in the Parampara system mentioned in the Bhagawad Gita, then I can give you a list of sages who have achieved the Supreme Personality through Bhakti Yoga.

I am still waiting for an example of a person who has attained salvation or kaivalyam or nirvana or liberation through the tantra process ...
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  #19  
Old June 7th, 2005, 09:02 AM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

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Kingfisherji, in all fairness to Landyabhai ... if you were to read him in context of this thread ... what he says makes sense. Just because prostitutes, gigolos and porn stars indulge in hours of sex does not qualify them as tantrics. Sex does not lead them to "oneness" with the universe, and partner or lead them to enlightenment. It takes more than sex.
Correct and all Iam saying is that there isnt any reason why prostitutes... etc cannot experience god using right tantric techniques or for that matter any other paths. My comment wasnt to contradict landyabhais thoughts but to indicate that any person can experience union/bliss/nirvana/moksha .
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Old June 7th, 2005, 09:43 AM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by landyaBhai
Yaar DhurPai, I am not denying that Prostitutes/PornStars/Gigolos are not eligible to experience the Supreme in their lifetime ... I am asking whether any of these living entities using the Tantra technique (that you have mentioned) have achieved enlightenment ...

I havent come across ANY person who has achieved this state of supreme consciousness .... whereas I can name a few that by different means of Yoga (Bhakti Yoga included) have achieved enlightenment.

For example, 24 Jain Tirthankaras have achieved Nirvana purely through meditative yoga. Even Lord Buddha has attained enlightenment. Similarly, if you believe in the Parampara system mentioned in the Bhagawad Gita, then I can give you a list of sages who have achieved the Supreme Personality through Bhakti Yoga.

I am still waiting for an example of a person who has attained salvation or kaivalyam or nirvana or liberation through the tantra process ...
If you call Bhakti as Yoga...then you may as well call Tantra as Tantra Yoga

Tantriks have their parampara too.....but how are you going to judge whether they were enlightened or not?

http://www.shivashakti.com/philtan.htm

as you can see from this website, Lord Dattatreya also taught Tantra

http://www.scarletwoman.org/scarletl...2n4_yoni1.html

Also, some Tibetan masters were Tantriks...Milarepa, Marpa & Naropa are a few that come to mind. I have read somewhere that these are Tibetan names of the Nath siddhs...Matsyendranath, Gorakhnath, Jalandharnath, etc. (9 in all, and Lord Dattatreya being Guru of them all)
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Last edited by dhurandhar; June 7th, 2005 at 09:49 AM.
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  #21  
Old June 7th, 2005, 12:48 PM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
If you call Bhakti as Yoga...then you may as well call Tantra as Tantra Yoga
You are putting words in my mouth by saying Tantra as Yoga ...

According to Patanjali, yoga consists of 8 parts:

(1) Yamas (2) Niyamas (3) Asanas (4) Pranayama (5) Pratyahara (6) Dhyana (7) Dharana and (8) Samadhi

Please enlighten me where does Tantra fits in ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
Tantriks have their parampara too.....but how are you going to judge whether they were enlightened or not?

http://www.shivashakti.com/philtan.htm

as you can see from this website, Lord Dattatreya also taught Tantra

http://www.scarletwoman.org/scarletl...2n4_yoni1.html

Also, some Tibetan masters were Tantriks...Milarepa, Marpa & Naropa are a few that come to mind. I have read somewhere that these are Tibetan names of the Nath siddhs...Matsyendranath, Gorakhnath, Jalandharnath, etc. (9 in all, and Lord Dattatreya being Guru of them all)
This what this link says:

http://www.scarletwoman.org/scarletl...2n4_yoni1.html

Quote:
The earliest references to Yoni Tattva in Kaula Tantras seems to be in the Kaula Jnana Nimay of Matsyendranath (AMMOOKOS 1984):

"In Kaula Agama the 5 pure and eternal substances are ashes, wife's nectar, semen, menstrual blood and ghee mixed together... In occasional rites and in acts of Kama Siddhi the great discharge without doubt and most certainly is what one should do in Kula Agama... One should always consume the physical blood and semen. This, 0 Dearest One, is the oblation of the Yoginis and Siddhas" (Chapter 8).

"Dearest One, a Brahmin goes to heaven by endless washing of the feet and mouth, whereas one who repeatedly makes a forehead mark of Kundagola or Udbhava menses can destroy various illnesses such as leprosy and smallpox, and is free from all disease in the same way that a sepent sloughs its skin." (Ibid, Chapter 8).

"Blood is the female (Vama) elixir—mixed with wine and semen it is the Absolute itself!" (Ibid, Chapter 18).


What I read from the link by Dattareya, who is ascribing to drinking a women's menstruation blood and semen mixed with Ghee and God knows what to achieve a state that a pure Yogi will have ...

I was of the opinion that you do not support anything that is not proved scientifically ...or you did not believe in scriptures or both ...

This magic potion that has been mentioned in your link seems to me as the ones the Alchemist used to pursue for having everlasting youthfulness and for turning anything to Gold ... and you very well know what happened to these theories ...

Anyways, good luck in your search for the eternal truth ...
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Last edited by landyaBhai; June 7th, 2005 at 12:54 PM.
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  #22  
Old June 7th, 2005, 01:54 PM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by landyaBhai
You are putting words in my mouth by saying Tantra as Yoga ...

According to Patanjali, yoga consists of 8 parts:

(1) Yamas (2) Niyamas (3) Asanas (4) Pranayama (5) Pratyahara (6) Dhyana (7) Dharana and (8) Samadhi

Please enlighten me where does Tantra fits in ?



This what this link says:

http://www.scarletwoman.org/scarletl...2n4_yoni1.html



What I read from the link by Dattareya, who is ascribing to drinking a women's menstruation blood and semen mixed with Ghee and God knows what to achieve a state that a pure Yogi will have ...

I was of the opinion that you do not support anything that is not proved scientifically ...or you did not believe in scriptures or both ...

This magic potion that has been mentioned in your link seems to me as the ones the Alchemist used to pursue for having everlasting youthfulness and for turning anything to Gold ... and you very well know what happened to these theories ...

Anyways, good luck in your search for the eternal truth ...
Where does Bhakti come in the Patanjali definition?

Now Dattatreya is an embodiment of the holy Hindu trinity into a single entity....and one of his descriptions is "Balonmatt Pishachak Vesh"

Bal + Unmatt + Pishach + Vesh

Bal means childlike, unmatt means mischevious, Pishach means a Vampire, Vesh means appearance

So, if the embodiment of the holy Hindu trinity behaves in such a way and says something about Tantra...it must make sense or the Hindu trinity is nonsense...or Dattatreya is nonsense...

Btw, what you read is metaphoric....it is meant to mislead people who crave supernatural powers
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Old June 7th, 2005, 02:11 PM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

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Originally Posted by dhurandhar
Btw, what you read is metaphoric....it is meant to mislead people who crave supernatural powers
and such is the nature of the knowledge that you are trying to explain ... so mysterious ... so not scientific ... so scriptural ... (that is what you used to say )

What I would say is that the Lord, the Supreme Personality, is Spiritual in nature and I dont find even an acceptable metaphoric hint of Spirituality in Tantra ... So, how does one reach the Supreme in Tantra ? Please do enlighten me ...
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Old June 7th, 2005, 03:21 PM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
So, if the embodiment of the holy Hindu trinity behaves in such a way and says something about Tantra...it must make sense or the Hindu trinity is nonsense...or Dattatreya is nonsense...
or both are nonsense
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Old June 7th, 2005, 04:06 PM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
Btw, what you read is metaphoric....it is meant to mislead people who crave supernatural powers
In comparison to that the Bhagawad Gita described the Science of God Realization clearly in some 700 verses ... It talks about only one God ... The Supreme Personality of Godhead ... It does not talk abt some demigods and self-styled Gurus ... The whole process is step by step and the effects of each step are very rewarding ... There is no need to hide this philosophy by using mysterious metaphors ... It is open to all ... It is every easy and the realization is aimed towards permanency rather than temporary and there is no need to drink somebody's "u know what" ...
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Old June 7th, 2005, 05:37 PM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

Menstrual blood mixed with shit and ghee ... roflmao

Please appreciate ... tantra rituals have remained a secret for so long that the entire thing has been bound up in symbolism, myths and alegory. ymbols, myths and allegories have themselves been expressed as further fables, emblems and parables. Language of tantra became so allusive that it almost has become impossible for the students to discover the truth ... factual truth ... it lies behind the multi-layered embroidery of imagery. Secret doctrines of craft lay hidden under the layers upon layers of philosophical discourses.

Dhurenderbhai, craft of tantra has been practiced in Rajasthan from ever since and by feudal lords and the princes. In Bengal great mother has always been worshipped ... did you mention Assam? btw ... Lord Krishna practiced tantricism.
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Old June 7th, 2005, 05:59 PM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by tantric_yogi
Lord Krishna practiced tantricism.
and from where did you get this piece of information ?
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Old June 7th, 2005, 06:06 PM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by tantric_yogi

... Lord Krishna practiced tantricism.



are you kidding???

why a supreme lord need a lowerGrade Tantra ????






Quote:
Originally Posted by tantric_yogi
. This is for young men like Dhurenderbhai
i. This requires stamina. This requires will. This requires a MAN!


.
may be this is for OLD women like Tantrik Devi...

Last edited by max de Indiana; June 7th, 2005 at 06:44 PM.
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Old June 7th, 2005, 06:51 PM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

By the way, the original book by a-z Rajneesh was:From sex to super consciousness.The hindi transalation was the catchy sambhog se samadhi tak.


TRUE ADVENTURE

Love at the Ashram

'I felt an intense orgasm lasting five minutes.'
By Bo Janks.

Way back in 1979 I left my job, and then the United States, for an Indian guru. I fell in love with his philosophy and with the man, too.

What made an already extraordinary action even more peculiar is that I'm not gay and not religious. I was just won over by his energy and charm. Bhagwan Shree Osho Rajneesh turned my sense of self inside out and upside down. He brought me to a pitch of living I didn't think was possible.

The journey had actually begun three years earlier when I came across his book Only One Sky (originally called The Way of Tantra). When I finished the book I realized that something very deep in me had changed, something I didn't understand yet. Among the many changes that took place, my sex life took fire. Suddenly, sex had become the most important thing in my life and I was ready to devote all my time and interest to it. I even left an 18-year career in electronics to pursue full-time what seemed to be the essence of life itself-sex.

Until then I wasn't exactly a virgin. I'd played the field, picked up my share of women on the club scene and even had a few regular relationships. But after reading that book and listening to some Osho Rajneesh tapes, I found myself doing some extraordinary things. For one, I started a sex club, called the Love Center, in southern New Jersey. It was a sort of mix between a swingers club and a spiritual growth center, a combination I would never have dreamed of from my good Catholic upbringing. There I was, ****ing some guy's gorgeous wife and talking about God! And that's not all. I was also able to have multiple orgasms every night, loving a large lumber of women with the highs getting higher all the time. Some nights as I lay there, with the pussy juices of a dozen women mingled on my cock, knew I was into something special, but I had no words for it.

Working a new gig as the East Coast sales manager for a California computer firm, I was able to make enough time for myself to entertain a stream of young, attractive" sexually active women. Within two years of my exposure to Osho Rajneesh, my income tripled and I was enjoying the erotic delights of more women than any man probably has the right to expect in this lifetime. Yet, the ego being what it is, I wanted more. I couldn't define exactly what it was that I wanted, but I knew it didn't have to do with numbers. I was looking for a different quality of sexuality. I wrote to the Osho Rajneesh ashram in Poona, India, to see if it could shed some light on what my next move should be.

I received a long letter from one of Osho Rajneesh's top disciples and a description of ashram life. Something clicked inside me and on December 26, 1979, I left for India. It was a long, tiring flight, but when I set foot in the ashram my fatigue disappeared. I felt I'd landed in heaven. There were hundreds of beautiful girls from all over the world.

First of all, Osho Rajneesh's sannyasis are almost universally very good looking people, the men as well as the women. When I first arrived at the ashram, I had a pretty high opinion of my looks and my level of sexual performance, and I thought I'd be King of the Mountain. Was I in for a surprise! For starters, my sexual exploits in America were worthless in Poona. I had to unburden myself of all the role and game playing I had in my repertoire, especially that of macho man. I was incredibly disappointed when I learned I couldn't take the group for at least a month, for it would take that long for me to begin to understand that spiritual sexuality is different from the swingers scene. To my chagrin, I spent the whole month being celibate, drooling over the luscious asses and breasts and beautiful faces of the willing women around me. Like Tantalus, I could reach out but I couldn't grab anything.

When I was considered ready, I was taken to the neo-Tantra group, which was held in a large underground room which might have once been a wine cellar or secret storage space.

As I entered this underground grotto" I began to tingle looking at the array of gorgeous women entering with me, I counted 16 of them, ranging in age from about 18 to 35, with a lot of blondes from Germany, Holland and California. We were instructed to take our shoes and sandals off and sit in a circle, waiting for the group leader. It took her about 20 minutes to arrive, and the wait was worth it. Her name was Baja (all the sannyasis have Indian names given them by Osho Rajneesh) and she was from South Africa. I immediately began to get stirrings in my groin, She was one of those stunning dream girls you see in centerfolds, and the first thing she said after letting us sit silently for another 20 minutes was, "take your clothes off" I didn't have to be urged on, and even though I was a veteran of group sex scenes I couldn't help getting a hard-on as I viewed the thighs, breasts, asses and luscious lips of my partners.

"Lets get one thing straight," Bala announced once we were all naked, "This group is not about love, Tantra or eroticism. It's about ****ing." She looked each of the 32 participants in the eyes, taking her time so that each of us felt the impact of what she had said. Then she went on to explain that we would explore the depths of the phenomenon we knew as screwing, balling, banging, humping, plowing and dozens of other words. Finally, she informed us that if we wanted to leave the group we could do it now, but if we didn't we would be locked together in the room for the rest of the night. One woman actually did get up and leave.

Then the group started. The lights were turned out and we were told to explore one another's bodies in the darkness. But whatever else we did, we were not to ****--not yet. So for the next half hour I crawled and rolled around the floor, feeling my cock and balls being caressed dozens of times while I had a feast fondling breasts and asses and ****s. The darkness helped remove inhibitions and I was astonished that so many women were ready to let themselves be fingered and stroked and were hot to touch so many erect cocks.

Then we went through more processes. We used bioenergetics, which involved two people of the opposite sex standing facing each other and thrusting their pelvises powerfully for half an hour. It was a kind of long-distance ****ing. Next we used a confrontation technique where each person looks into his or her partner's eyes for a half hour and allows himself or herself to "be" with whatever comes up All in all we went through perhaps a few dozen processes during the three days. Some brought laughter, some produced tears, some brought up anger and some joy. What the workshop was intended to do, it did-we all found ourselves dropping our barriers to connect.

We did exercises that dealt with feelings of rejection. We worked with rape, homosexuality, fetishes, insecurities, fantasies and so on. One night there was this woman from Paris who wanted to experience four men at the same time. I was recruited as one of the men. When it came my turn to enter her, I felt as though my cock had been plugged into a live electrical circuit. I began thrusting into her and my whole body seemed alive with electricity. I began coming, but instead of a quick discharge, the feeling went on and on, as though I was getting energy from somewhere outside myself. I went on for maybe five minutes. There was no ejaculation, just what seemed a perpetual orgasm. I felt as though I'd left my body. The woman disappeared and all that was left was me and the orgasm.

All men know what it feels like to come--that electric feeling in the genitals and the thrill up the spine. But for me, just then, it felt like a Niagara Falls of energy going up and down my spine I was later to learn that this was an opening of the body's energy system and the kundalini was flowing "the Juice" that travels along the spinal column through the body's bioelectrical centers called charkas.

If I'd read about it, I'd have considered it Eastern hocus-pocus, but I was experiencing it firsthand. I also began to hear celestial sounds! It was like being in a different dimension of time and space. I sensed what I have to call the "Force of God" and under stood eternity.

However, as intense as the day's structured activities were, they paled before what took place at night when the group was locked in and told to "experiment." All the day's activities built to a mighty crescendo and we all went beyond sex to supersex, to a level that transcended what we ordinarily consider to be sexuality. We understood sex as a doorway to spirituality, an idea just not available in the west or even among most Eastern teachers. I realized that I had found a very rare opportunity.

At several points in the three-day event, audiotapes of Bhagwan were played in which he discussed the subject of sexuality. I still remember some of those words today and have them on the wall near my desk. "Never repress sex! Never be against it. Rather, go deeply into it with great clarity, with great love. Go like an explorer. Search all the nooks and crannies of your sexuality, and you will stumble upon your spirituality. Then you will become free. The future will have a totally different vision of sex for you. It will be more fun, more joy" more friendship, more play than a serious affair, as it has been in the past. Sex is just the beginning, not the end, But if you miss the beginning, you will miss the end also"

Bhagwan says that when fear disappears" love is what is left And when I saw the truth of that, I wanted to bring it into the world, to become a missionary for this extraordinary teaching and experience. I looked back even on my own sexual experience of the past and saw how childish it appeared, how it was based on performance and quick gratification.

Outside of Osho's teachings of Tantra, sex is either exploited or suppressed At the end of the three days, Bala looked at each of us with her slow, penetrating look, and each of us got what she was saying without her needing to say a word. For a while anyway, we had all used sex to transcend sex, we were at another level. The penis and vagina had been used" but only as the material appendages of something higher" something beyond this plane of existence. We were no longer victims of our training and conditioning, no longer warped by a society that lives in fear of sexual energy. For those three days we were able to get a glimpse beyond the false views of life we are given by our culture, to see into another level, the place where God hangs out.

Today, more than 20 years later, sex no longer has me in its grip. If the energy is there, I will enjoy making it with a partner, but I have never "****ed" again since that memorable workshop in Poona. Now, when I enter a woman, I enter the divine realm, and I take her with me. There's never a rush; the trip is the goal.

At every moment of our sexual contact, we are able to touch the heart of God. Simply by letting go and being a witness to whatever it is that arises. The paths are many. But for me, and for others who have shared the ultimate sexual experience, we have a special doorway to the divine.








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Old June 9th, 2005, 04:34 AM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by landyaBhai
and from where did you get this piece of information ?
LandYabhai, I read your above quoted post yesterday ... could not make up my mind if I should go ahead and reply. I decided to leave it for a day. Not that I am a coward ... debates, arguments and hurting sensitivities is not my forte. So, aware of your aversion to certain topics ... I have decided to let it be.

I am not going to dwell any further but Mahabharata is embedded with several stories attesting to my claim.

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