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  #31  
Old July 15th, 2011, 06:30 PM
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Re: Why USA will always need foreign workers with Math skills

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Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
You are just adding a lot of conditions and assumptions which were not present in the present problem. Offcourse since you have to always show your 'otherwise' thinking, it is excused and I would believe any answer you came up with. Even 12 minutes!
But all of you (except Diplo' daughter) also made lot of implicit assumptions...which were far less logical

To be honest....the problem was poorly formulated/worded. But to blame it on math teachers, that is an extreme response. I am sure math teachers in India (and even in board exams) do not always have perfectly worded problems
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Last edited by dhurandhar; July 15th, 2011 at 06:34 PM.
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  #32  
Old July 15th, 2011, 06:32 PM
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Re: Why USA will always need foreign workers with Math skills

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Originally Posted by landyaBhai View Post
Cha, the answer is 20. There is a big long board (as shown in the figure). If you cut it at any point with a saw, it is going to produce two pieces of boards, which is going to take 10 minutes ... So if you want to make another cut, regardless of how many pieces you get, it is going to be 10 extra minutes ... I dont see how it could be 15 minutes ...
see my answer...you are assuming that cutting for any dimension takes 10 extra minutes...common sense dictates it is not so
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  #33  
Old July 16th, 2011, 05:24 AM
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Re: Why USA will always need foreign workers with Math skills

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Originally Posted by dhurandhar View Post
see my answer...you are assuming that cutting for any dimension takes 10 extra minutes...common sense dictates it is not so
heres another proof then...the time taken is equal to the time required for a butter knife to cut a metal sheet...

the saw does not have teeth to begin with...check the figure provided... its not an assumption...its a ''given''

please cross check with diplomat's daughter...
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  #34  
Old July 16th, 2011, 08:01 AM
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Re: Why USA will always need foreign workers with Math skills

Here is how it works.
The problem DOES NOT state that the board is cut into 3 equal pieces.

Hence, the solution goes like this:

1. Cut the board of 30 inch square into 2 halves i.e. 15 inches (pandra inchee) square. This took 10 minutes. So the time taken to cut through 30 inches is 10 minutes.
2. Pick up one of the halves whose one side is 15 inch now and cut it into 2 pieces. The time taken to cut through 15 inches is 1/2 of that taken for 30 inches = 5 minutes.

Total time to get 3 pieces? 10 + 5 = 15 min.

Alternatively and amazingly if you approach it as a ratio problem, if time taken to get 2 pieces is 10 minutes, then find out time taken to get 3 pieces? 3x10/2 = 15 :ROFL
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  #35  
Old July 16th, 2011, 08:43 AM
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Re: Why USA will always need foreign workers with Math skills

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Originally Posted by Diplomat View Post
Here is how it works.
The problem DOES NOT state that the board is cut into 3 equal pieces.

Hence, the solution goes like this:

1. Cut the board of 30 inch square into 2 halves i.e. 15 inches (pandra inchee) square. This took 10 minutes. So the time taken to cut through 30 inches is 10 minutes.
2. Pick up one of the halves whose one side is 15 inch now and cut it into 2 pieces. The time taken to cut through 15 inches is 1/2 of that taken for 30 inches = 5 minutes.

Total time to get 3 pieces? 10 + 5 = 15 min.

Alternatively and amazingly if you approach it as a ratio problem, if time taken to get 2 pieces is 10 minutes, then find out time taken to get 3 pieces? 3x10/2 = 15 :ROFL
You get two rectangular pieces of 15 inches by 30 inches

While the math test was perhaps testing concept of ratios, it bypasses the actual visualization based deduction which at times can be dangerous. Most students cannot convince themselves that it is 15 minutes purely on basis of abstract concept of ratio and proportion when it comes to time. This leads to rote memorization, which is an escape mechanism to get good grades without having to struggle a lot.
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Last edited by dhurandhar; July 16th, 2011 at 08:47 AM.
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  #36  
Old July 16th, 2011, 08:47 AM
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Re: Why USA will always need foreign workers with Math skills

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You get two rectangular pieces of 15 inches by 30 inches
ooooops.....
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  #37  
Old July 16th, 2011, 04:50 PM
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Re: Why USA will always need foreign workers with Math skills

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Originally Posted by dhurandhar View Post
You get two rectangular pieces of 15 inches by 30 inches

While the math test was perhaps testing concept of ratios, it bypasses the actual visualization based deduction which at times can be dangerous. Most students cannot convince themselves that it is 15 minutes purely on basis of abstract concept of ratio and proportion when it comes to time. This leads to rote memorization, which is an escape mechanism to get good grades without having to struggle a lot.
but then if thats the logic....I say bacchha is a dhurandhar or dhurandhara...what he/she does is as follows since she knows she is paunay do shaana compared to the teacher who is a dedh chustu/chustuya...

lets say 10x10 square...she/he makes 2 incisions that are 0.5 inch along one plane rather than cut all the way through...this divides the board into 3 segments upto the point of 0.5 inches...pictorially
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then she/he custs across the other plane end to end...now based on that technique...

time consumed(if proportionate to total number of inches cut) will be the lowest...and that will 10 + 2*x/10 (x = measurement of incision)

Last edited by GameOn; July 16th, 2011 at 04:57 PM.
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  #38  
Old July 16th, 2011, 06:56 PM
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Re: Why USA will always need foreign workers with Math skills

As can be observed, a deceptively simple problem did not have unique solution.

When I tried solving it first time around, I got the same answer (20 minutes)...but then I tried approaching it anew, I realized it that it had practically an infinite number of solutions! That is where I felt compelled to post in this thread

What is essential for education is that students must be taught to think critically by assessing hidden/implicit assumption leading to any solution
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  #39  
Old July 16th, 2011, 08:34 PM
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Re: Why USA will always need foreign workers with Math skills

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Originally Posted by dhurandhar View Post
As can be observed, a deceptively simple problem did not have unique solution.

When I tried solving it first time around, I got the same answer (20 minutes)...but then I tried approaching it anew, I realized it that it had practically an infinite number of solutions! That is where I felt compelled to post in this thread

What is essential for education is that students must be taught to think critically by assessing hidden/implicit assumption leading to any solution
Agree with you on that, but for a primary class student where learning mathematical ratios and work time concepts comes first and then comes the critical thinking once they have mastered these basic calculations.
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  #40  
Old July 16th, 2011, 08:46 PM
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Re: Why USA will always need foreign workers with Math skills

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Originally Posted by dhurandhar View Post
As can be observed, a deceptively simple problem did not have unique solution.

When I tried solving it first time around, I got the same answer (20 minutes)...but then I tried approaching it anew, I realized it that it had practically an infinite number of solutions! That is where I felt compelled to post in this thread

What is essential for education is that students must be taught to think critically by assessing hidden/implicit assumption leading to any solution
well that way, yes I agree, it has many possible solutions (although not infinite)
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  #41  
Old July 17th, 2011, 08:22 AM
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Re: Why USA will always need foreign workers with Math skills

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Originally Posted by landyaBhai View Post
well that way, yes I agree, it has many possible solutions (although not infinite)
you might be assuming that the board has to be rectangle....
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  #42  
Old July 17th, 2011, 09:13 AM
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Re: Why USA will always need foreign workers with Math skills

As my engineering professor always said:

"State your assumptions clearly before your present your solution"
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  #43  
Old July 17th, 2011, 09:45 AM
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Re: Why USA will always need foreign workers with Math skills

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Originally Posted by Diplomat View Post
As my engineering professor always said:

"State your assumptions clearly before your present your solution"
I beg to differ on this one.

I prefer to write my assumptions after solving the problem. This is because I make rational assumptions on the fly.

Because most people prefer to see the assumptions before solution is attempted, I leave blank space and fill it after I am done solving the problem
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  #44  
Old July 17th, 2011, 09:50 AM
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Re: Why USA will always need foreign workers with Math skills

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I beg to differ on this one.

I prefer to write my assumptions after solving the problem. This is because I make rational assumptions on the fly.

Because most people prefer to see the assumptions before solution is attempted, I leave blank space and fill it after I am done solving the problem
which to the reader will appear as you stated the assumptions clearly before they read the solution.

same diff Dhurru.
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  #45  
Old July 17th, 2011, 11:22 AM
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Talking Re: Why USA will always need foreign workers with Math skills

I am assuming that dhuru's and Diplo's pre and post assumptions are presumptious and contrary to my assumptions about problem statements and assumptions to be made when assuming things ....


Fuck .. what did I just write??
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