eCharcha.Com   Support eCharcha.Com. Click on sponsor ad to shop online!

Advertise Here

Go Back   eCharcha.Com > Current Affairs > Economy

Notices

Economy Fiscally fit?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old April 21st, 2016, 01:09 PM
sgars's Avatar
sgars sgars is offline
2
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mid West
Posts: 6,828
sgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond repute
Bullet Train

At TOILET

The 508km long Mumbai-Ahmedabad high speed rail corridor will have a 21km long tunnel under the sea, said a senior railway ministry official involved with the public transporter's ambitious bullet train project.
While most part of the corridor is proposed to be on the elevated track, there will be a stretch after Thane creek towards Virar which will go under the sea as per the detailed project report by JICA.
Estimated to cost about Rs 97,636 crore, 81 per cent of the funding for the project, will come in form of a loan from Japan. The project cost includes possible cost escalation, interest during construction and import duties.
It is a soft loan for 50 years at 0.1 per cent annual interest with 15 years' moratorium, said the official.
Rolling stock and other equipment like signalling and power system will be imported from Japan as per the loan agreement.
The official said the loan agreement with Japan is slated to be signed by the end of the year and construction work is likely to begin by the end of 2018.
According top priority to the first of its kind project, railways has formed National High Speed Rail Corporation Limited (NHSRCL), a special purpose vehicle (SPV), with a paid-up capital of Rs 500 crore.
__________________
This is quite a game, politics. There are no permanent enemies, and no permanent friends,only permanent interests. - Some Firang
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old April 21st, 2016, 01:12 PM
sgars's Avatar
sgars sgars is offline
2
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mid West
Posts: 6,828
sgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bullet Train

Money of this from {akistan Today site
The proposed bullet train between Mumbai and Ahmedabad will have to ferry 88,000-118,000 passengers per day, or undertake 100 trips daily, for the Railways to keep it financially viable, says a report by Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad (IIM-A).
The report is titled, "Dedicated High Speed Railway (HSR) Networks in India: Issues in Development,".
Report states that if the Railways set the ticket price at Rs 1500 per person for 300-km drive, then fifteen years after the operation it will have to ferry between 88,000 and 110,000 passengers every day to ensure that it repays the loans with interest on time.

Japan has offered a concessional loan of Rs 97,636 crore to fund about 80 per cent of the project cost with a repayment period of 50 years beginning from the 16th year of operation at an interest rate of 0.1 per cent.


For the remaining 20 per cent loan, the authors assume 8 per cent average rate of interest (on Rs 20,000 crore to be funded by Centre).
Japan has offered a 15-year moratorium on loan, so revenue concerns for the Indian Railways will arise from the 16th year of operation, the authors stated in the paper.
The total distance covered by the train will be 534 kilometres.
The paper has been jointly authored by faculty members G Raghuram, professor of the institute's Public Systems Group, and Prashanth Udayakumar.
While the actual operating cost fifteen years after the bullet train becomes operational, is not known, the paper assumes two scenarios by pegging operating cost at 20 per cent and 40 per cent of revenue.
"So if the Railways earn Rs 100 revenue, Rs 20 or Rs 40 will go for maintenance, and remaining surplus money will go for cash payment of loan with interest. Now, to cover the loan with operating cost in two scenarios, we consider passengers travelling an average distance of 300 kilometres. In this case, we will need 88,000-118,000 passengers respectively for both the scenarios," Raghuram said.
"Typically one train carries 800 passengers, so to carry 88,000 passengers daily, you will need to take a total of 100 trips, or 50 trips each way. So, we need three trains every hour in each direction," he said.
As per the paper, "there are many positive benefits and externalities of the HSR which would be useful in India's overall aspirational development."
__________________
This is quite a game, politics. There are no permanent enemies, and no permanent friends,only permanent interests. - Some Firang

Last edited by sgars; April 21st, 2016 at 01:18 PM. Reason: removed sponsored content.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old April 21st, 2016, 01:17 PM
sgars's Avatar
sgars sgars is offline
2
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mid West
Posts: 6,828
sgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bullet Train

Before all start jumping, some questions and Concerns.

- Bullet Train started in Japan in 70s. Are we paying so much though through a soft loan for a 40 year old Technology??

- China got the Maglev train from Germany. Why cant we shoot for that?? Japan is also developing the Technology.

All said and done despite all the drawbacks and looking like some 19th century relic, Indian railways is one of the few rail networks that runs without govt subsidy (except for a brief period when Mumtaz was the rail minister under ABV). Many of the European High speed networks (or for that matter local trains) run with government subsidy. So, if we are planning to spend money on Technology, why not go full swing rather than a 40 year technology.

What is the viability of this compared to say Air travel.
__________________
This is quite a game, politics. There are no permanent enemies, and no permanent friends,only permanent interests. - Some Firang
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old April 21st, 2016, 01:27 PM
kalidas's Avatar
kalidas kalidas is offline
Super eCharchan
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Caves of Karakoram
Posts: 3,307
kalidas has a reputation beyond reputekalidas has a reputation beyond reputekalidas has a reputation beyond reputekalidas has a reputation beyond reputekalidas has a reputation beyond reputekalidas has a reputation beyond reputekalidas has a reputation beyond reputekalidas has a reputation beyond reputekalidas has a reputation beyond reputekalidas has a reputation beyond reputekalidas has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bullet Train

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgars View Post
Before all start jumping, some questions and Concerns.....
You talking to yourself partner? Or did you forget to logoff and login with different id?
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old April 22nd, 2016, 04:00 AM
sgars's Avatar
sgars sgars is offline
2
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mid West
Posts: 6,828
sgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bullet Train

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalidas View Post
You talking to yourself partner? Or did you forget to logoff and login with different id?
It is 2 different nooze items and then my take. I preferred 3 posts to one long post. Looks like you are badly missing someone who put long posts.
__________________
This is quite a game, politics. There are no permanent enemies, and no permanent friends,only permanent interests. - Some Firang
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old April 22nd, 2016, 09:17 AM
BABU_HYDERABADI's Avatar
BABU_HYDERABADI BABU_HYDERABADI is offline
Hyderabad Wala !!!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 2,958
BABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bullet Train

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgars View Post
Before all start jumping, some questions and Concerns.

- Bullet Train started in Japan in 70s. Are we paying so much though through a soft loan for a 40 year old Technology??

- China got the Maglev train from Germany. Why cant we shoot for that?? Japan is also developing the Technology.

All said and done despite all the drawbacks and looking like some 19th century relic, Indian railways is one of the few rail networks that runs without govt subsidy (except for a brief period when Mumtaz was the rail minister under ABV). Many of the European High speed networks (or for that matter local trains) run with government subsidy. So, if we are planning to spend money on Technology, why not go full swing rather than a 40 year technology.

What is the viability of this compared to say Air travel.
a Maglev would cost atleast twice the bullet train cost. Also you should see that China only implemented that maglev system on one line, that brings airport passengers into the city, but when it came to implementing High Speed rail systems they went with the good old bullet train system.
__________________
An oft quoted Gandhian phrase is that if all were to follow an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth, then the world would go blind. The counter to that is that if only some follow this and others don't then it is the non-violent who would go blind while the rogues will rule the world.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old April 22nd, 2016, 09:22 AM
Sane Less's Avatar
Sane Less Sane Less is offline
Dead On Arrival is back
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,805
Sane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bullet Train

Once they build this, will Bollywood make an action/thriller/suspense movie on this I think for once Bollywood should advance on the idea before the rail corridor is built... and then donate all earnings to repayment of the loan
__________________
-----------------------------------------------

"Kisi ne sahi kaha zindagi kutti cheez hai. You live life without a care in the world not realizing that life is building a heavy load of trash that it dumps on you one fine day, breaking your back." - saneless
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old April 24th, 2016, 03:32 PM
sgars's Avatar
sgars sgars is offline
2
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mid West
Posts: 6,828
sgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond reputesgars has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bullet Train

Thanks Babu pai for the info.

Did some wikiing and found that the Shanghai Maglev is a 'White elephant'

Also, Maglev itself has been around since 70s. So it is not new either.

There is international politics also behind this.
The Shanghai Maglev was built by Germans to show a middle finger to Japan by China. There is a chance Modi Sarkar wants to do the same to China with this.
__________________
This is quite a game, politics. There are no permanent enemies, and no permanent friends,only permanent interests. - Some Firang
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old June 23rd, 2016, 10:56 AM
BABU_HYDERABADI's Avatar
BABU_HYDERABADI BABU_HYDERABADI is offline
Hyderabad Wala !!!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 2,958
BABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bullet Train

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgars View Post
Thanks Babu pai for the info.

Did some wikiing and found that the Shanghai Maglev is a 'White elephant'

Also, Maglev itself has been around since 70s. So it is not new either.

There is international politics also behind this.
The Shanghai Maglev was built by Germans to show a middle finger to Japan by China. There is a chance Modi Sarkar wants to do the same to China with this.
Yes it is 70's technology, but they have been improving on the electrical needs and the weight each magnet can bear
__________________
An oft quoted Gandhian phrase is that if all were to follow an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth, then the world would go blind. The counter to that is that if only some follow this and others don't then it is the non-violent who would go blind while the rogues will rule the world.

Last edited by BABU_HYDERABADI; July 9th, 2016 at 05:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old August 25th, 2016, 06:41 PM
BABU_HYDERABADI's Avatar
BABU_HYDERABADI BABU_HYDERABADI is offline
Hyderabad Wala !!!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 2,958
BABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond reputeBABU_HYDERABADI has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bullet Train

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgars View Post
Thanks Babu pai for the info.

Did some wikiing and found that the Shanghai Maglev is a 'White elephant'

Also, Maglev itself has been around since 70s. So it is not new either.

There is international politics also behind this.
The Shanghai Maglev was built by Germans to show a middle finger to Japan by China. There is a chance Modi Sarkar wants to do the same to China with this.
Maglev as a concept existed since before WW-I. Japan built its version and germany its version. And as we all know china hates japan, chineese went with german technology for their maglev.
__________________
An oft quoted Gandhian phrase is that if all were to follow an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth, then the world would go blind. The counter to that is that if only some follow this and others don't then it is the non-violent who would go blind while the rogues will rule the world.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old September 28th, 2016, 05:31 AM
Aashika Aashika is offline
Senior eCharchan
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,563
Aashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bullet Train

Why does it need to go under water? cant they build on land? Its not like Mumbai and Ahmedabad are separated by Atlantic (example) where you have no option but to go under/over/above water? pardon my ignorance.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old September 28th, 2016, 06:40 AM
swami's Avatar
swami swami is offline
Super eCharchan
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,818
swami has a reputation beyond reputeswami has a reputation beyond reputeswami has a reputation beyond reputeswami has a reputation beyond reputeswami has a reputation beyond reputeswami has a reputation beyond reputeswami has a reputation beyond reputeswami has a reputation beyond reputeswami has a reputation beyond reputeswami has a reputation beyond reputeswami has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bullet Train

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aashika View Post
Why does it need to go under water? cant they build on land? Its not like Mumbai and Ahmedabad are separated by Atlantic (example) where you have no option but to go under/over/above water? pardon my ignorance.
Railways between many places have to cross rivers,small streams,etd so same with the upcoming Bullet trains so the underwater over water etc
__________________
There are four kinds of people to avoid in the world: the assholes, the asswipes, the ass-kissers, and those that just will shit all over you.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old September 28th, 2016, 07:03 AM
Aashika Aashika is offline
Senior eCharchan
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,563
Aashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond reputeAashika has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bullet Train

Quote:
Originally Posted by swami View Post
Railways between many places have to cross rivers,small streams,etd so same with the upcoming Bullet trains so the underwater over water etc
I am thinking out loud here...isnt the cost to build a track over the ground/ around the stream/ over the stream a fraction of what underwater track costs?
am sure they thought of this; just curious what was the rationale behind such an expensive project.

Last edited by Aashika; September 28th, 2016 at 07:07 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old September 28th, 2016, 09:07 AM
kkkk kkkk is offline
Senior eCharchan
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,141
kkkk has a reputation beyond reputekkkk has a reputation beyond reputekkkk has a reputation beyond reputekkkk has a reputation beyond reputekkkk has a reputation beyond reputekkkk has a reputation beyond reputekkkk has a reputation beyond reputekkkk has a reputation beyond reputekkkk has a reputation beyond reputekkkk has a reputation beyond reputekkkk has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bullet Train

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aashika View Post
I am thinking out loud here...isnt the cost to build a track over the ground/ around the stream/ over the stream a fraction of what underwater track costs?
am sure they thought of this; just curious what was the rationale behind such an expensive project.
thats only capex you are looking at. there is a massive opex saving there somewhere.

its like worli sea link. I am sure it was a massive project and there were land routes already available. But ask people who regularly use it - its a massive blessing.
__________________
Winner of the Signature Contest 2013!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old September 29th, 2016, 09:25 AM
Sane Less's Avatar
Sane Less Sane Less is offline
Dead On Arrival is back
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,805
Sane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond reputeSane Less has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bullet Train

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aashika View Post
I am thinking out loud here...isnt the cost to build a track over the ground/ around the stream/ over the stream a fraction of what underwater track costs?
am sure they thought of this; just curious what was the rationale behind such an expensive project.
It is mostly distance. If you look at a map, the direct distance between Bombay to A'bad is about a tenth of the distance you would normally take by land. This saves both distance and time.
__________________
-----------------------------------------------

"Kisi ne sahi kaha zindagi kutti cheez hai. You live life without a care in the world not realizing that life is building a heavy load of trash that it dumps on you one fine day, breaking your back." - saneless
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
bullet, goli express, golimaar, railgadi


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PIL filed against 26/11 bullet proof jackets echarcha Defense 0 November 3rd, 2009 02:27 PM
Any Fans of Royal Enfield Bullet? gandesh SoapBox 29 September 29th, 2009 09:26 AM
Now, ISROs bullet-proof vests rameshp Defense 19 February 7th, 2009 01:05 PM
Bullet Cams Deployed In Iraq Parashuram Taaza Khabar - Current news 0 March 27th, 2003 05:39 PM
Being Hit by a Psycho's bullet - POLL Big-G SoapBox 20 October 11th, 2002 06:24 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Site Copyright © eCharcha.Com 2000-2012.