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  #31  
Old January 21st, 2002, 11:06 AM
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Exclamation kameena, unlike stocks ...

... commodity trading is a zero sum game. When you make money, someone else is losing money.

While investing in stocks too may look like that but see how the market capitalization in stocks grows over years and there is real value addition behind the trading of stocks, which is not so in case of commodities.

In commodity trading, if you think that you know when to get in and when to get out, then you are assuming that others are not as smart as you are. Granted, that is exactly the case with day traders in stocks, but stocks could be held for a much longer term than the commodities, unless you want (and can pay for) a ton of silver sitting in your basement for 2 years.

This is why I call investing in commodities to be gambling. People just presume that they are smart when they win a few bets.
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  #32  
Old January 21st, 2002, 11:10 AM
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Thumbs down judgement instinct or luck ?

Quote:
Originally posted by laal_langot
And you could very well lose your NARI too if she decides your benfits are no longer enough ever since you moved onto the WSJ...

dude what you dont understand you dont comment upon....price movements are erratic for factors that are more varied than just what Bill Gates does with the 500 or so dollars he earns per second...I said in the earlier post pricing is much more complicated so you have to do more than ask for week old WSJ in your benefits package...

You dont trade on price movements as in some sort of teen patti you are playing at gotiya's den...you trade on judgement instinct and research...very easy to buy a stock that has declared a 200% gain on past years profits...rather difficult to pick up oil when its trading at 9 and a half a barrel
sometimes, people confuse luck with their judgement instinct
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  #33  
Old January 21st, 2002, 12:18 PM
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Re: kameena, unlike stocks ...

Quote:
Originally posted by eNRI
... commodity trading is a zero sum game. When you make money, someone else is losing money.

While investing in stocks too may look like that but see how the market capitalization in stocks grows over years and there is real value addition behind the trading of stocks, which is not so in case of commodities.

Not necessarily eNRI. Sometimes Commodity traders make the money, while manufacturers of the commodity lose. Most common is oil. Again demand and supply principles rule. For eg I can get a hedge for oil from a producer for 10 dollars, and hold it for a month before selling it for 12. The manufacturer might have lost, while I gain. So sometimes commodity training can be like maximising your profits at the cost of manufacturer. It is hell a lot complex than what it appears, that is the reason I shun it.
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  #34  
Old January 21st, 2002, 12:32 PM
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Re: Re: kameena, unlike stocks ...

[quote]Originally posted by kameena
Not necessarily eNRI. Sometimes Commodity traders make the money, while manufacturers of the commodity lose. Most common is oil. Again demand and supply principles rule. For eg I can get a hedge for oil from a producer for 10 dollars, and hold it for a month before selling it for 12. The manufacturer might have lost, while I gain. So sometimes commodity training can be like maximising your profits at the cost of manufacturer. It is hell a lot complex than what it appears, that is the reason I shun it.QUOTE]

manufacturer loses, you gain - the sum is zero.

In stocks, the total invesment at the start is say a billion dollars. After 10 years, the assets and business are worth 10 billion dollars. So, it is not a zero sum game.
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  #35  
Old January 21st, 2002, 12:59 PM
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Meena pai..my first post said that forex and commodities both are very complex markets with a whole gamut of variables which even the most experienced of traders leave alone a kid like me can possibly model...thing is if everyone just stuck to making money the relatively easier way(less labour researching etc) then like everything else there would be no progress in the understanding of markets and financial economics...

Nari if the initial investment is a billion at the end of the 10 years how are the assets worth 10 billion if you havent gained profit at the expense of someone else....someone else being consumers who are paying a price higher than the cost of generation of the product the company sells....fundamental economics is resources are finite....their distribution gets altered...

as for zero sums....gold after the 79 oil shock shot to 850 dollars an ounce...who gained at the cost of whom???after 9/11 it spiked 30 dollars an ounce???who gained at the cost of whom??the markets were shut for trading so dont give me one trader at the cost of another...increased value for SOLID assets due to increased safety perception resulted in a price increase of the asset...

And yeah dude(NARI that is) desis especially confuse judgement with luck....typical desi mentality....god bless america the land of judgement and the home of the wall street
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  #36  
Old January 21st, 2002, 12:59 PM
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But man, the manufacturer's loss is reflected in his stock prices, and it doesnt mean that commodity trading is zero sum game as you said earlier. Agreed that if you bring manufacturers into picture too then it becomes a zero sum game.
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  #37  
Old January 21st, 2002, 01:06 PM
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Thumbs up My point exactly

Quote:
Originally posted by laal_langot
after 9/11 it spiked 30 dollars an ounce???who gained at the cost of whom??
if someone had bought gold on 9/10 and sold it when the market opened was buying gold on 9/10 a sound investment decision or was it pure luck for this guy, that the incidence happened?

What you call judgement, I call luck.
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  #38  
Old January 21st, 2002, 01:11 PM
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It doesnt meena pai.....the producer sells it at a price he deems profitable and the trader further sells it based on what he sees as the right price....both make profits(given the trader sells it for higher than he bought)....its just like dot coms...it depends on your expectation and value you attach to what you are buying...more psychology than maths...

Did I call that judgement??I asked you who gained at whose cost there?answer the question or dont answer at all...
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  #39  
Old January 21st, 2002, 02:11 PM
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langoat, you need to do some courses in economics

Quote:
Originally posted by laal_langot
Nari if the initial investment is a billion at the end of the 10 years how are the assets worth 10 billion if you havent gained profit at the expense of someone else....someone else being consumers who are paying a price higher than the cost of generation of the product the company sells....fundamental economics is resources are finite....their distribution gets altered...
The answer is NO. No, you haven't gained at the expense of someone else.

Because what is worth $10 to the consumer costed $5 to the manufacturer. So, the profit is not coming at the expense of the consumer who is getting his money's worth or the employees who got their time's worth.
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  #40  
Old January 21st, 2002, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by laal_langot
Did I call that judgement??I asked you who gained at whose cost there?answer the question or dont answer at all...
the guy who bought before 9/11 gained and the guy who sold him that gold lost. no matter how you look at it, in commodity trading, the sum total of gains or losses is zero.
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  #41  
Old February 18th, 2010, 11:25 PM
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Re: Are you a smart investor ?

guys i need some help here.

is there anyone in online trading field here?

i am new to this ,so i wanted to ask which is the best online

trading platform.

i have heard about Reliance Money's Supertrader.can anyone

please tell me how good it is?

also i think it allows mobile trading as well and its relatively

fast.
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  #42  
Old February 19th, 2010, 04:55 AM
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Re: Are you a smart investor ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by akhi kashyup View Post
guys i need some help here.

is there anyone in online trading field here?

i am new to this ,so i wanted to ask which is the best online

trading platform.

i have heard about Reliance Money's Supertrader.can anyone

please tell me how good it is?

also i think it allows mobile trading as well and its relatively

fast.
How is it that you track your investments? I mean...do you trade on a daily basis or is this for seasonal use? Depending on this you will need to choose the website.
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  #43  
Old February 22nd, 2010, 12:12 AM
akhi kashyup akhi kashyup is offline
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Re: Are you a smart investor ?

i would trade daily..once i get the right platform.thanks for the help!
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  #44  
Old February 22nd, 2010, 12:14 AM
akhi kashyup akhi kashyup is offline
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Re: Are you a smart investor ?

i am a small investor.
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  #45  
Old February 22nd, 2010, 08:47 AM
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Re: Are you a smart investor ?

Please advertise your website. We are all waiting.
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