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  #1  
Old August 1st, 2005, 12:13 PM
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India, US join hands in space

India and US are poised to take their strategic relationship a notch higher. They will soon sign a crucial space launch agreement to allow India to launch US-made satellites not just from US, but from other countries that use American components in their satellites.

The understanding will help the country's premier space body, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), boost its earnings. It will also help the once-estranged democracies get into a tighter strategic partnership.

Some last-minute refinements in the agreement are being worked out relating to pre-launch treatment of US satellites on Indian rockets.

But these, say top sources, are procedural issues, which both sides expect to be sorted out at the next meeting of the space working group.

India has already accepted two US payloads for the Chandrayaan mission. More such joint endeavours are now expected, and together with that, closer exchange of strategic space technologies.

But technology aside, coming after a slew of agreements with the US, this is evidence of the growing closeness between India and the US.

This may not evoke the protests that greeted the N-pact with the US. The opposition BJP, which put the train in motion, cannot, in all honesty, oppose the deal. Even Left parties seem to be coming round to accepting the gains for India, if their internal divisions regarding the India-US New Deal are any indication.

ISRO chief Madhavan Nair, who travelled to Washington with the PM, returned with three of ISRO's key facilities taken out of the US Entities List.

Of special interest was the removal of the Space Applications Centre, Ahmedabad, ISRO Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network (ISTRAC) and ISRO Inertial Systems Unit (IISU). Earlier in September 2004, seven facilities had been taken off the list.

Once the space pact comes through, India will have a good chance to pitch for commercial satellite launch projects, because there are only three others in this business France, Russia and China. Analysts here indicated that the US would probably prefer Indian rockets to Russian and French rockets, and certainly the Chinese ones.

Salient features of the pact:

1) Pact will allow India to launch US-made satellites.
2) Both sides looking to strengthen strategic partnership.
3) India has already accepted two payloads for Chandrayaan.
4) Three ISRO facilities out of US Entities List.
5) If deal comes through, India will be able to pitch for commercial satellite launches

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...ow/1188061.cms
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Old August 1st, 2005, 12:26 PM
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Thumbs up Re: India, US join hands in space

great steps forward for ISRO. Go ISRO Go!
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  #3  
Old August 1st, 2005, 01:42 PM
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Re: India, US join hands in space

Quote:
Originally Posted by padhu
India and US are poised to take their strategic relationship a notch higher. They will soon sign a crucial space launch agreement to allow India to launch US-made satellites not just from US, but from other countries that use American components in their satellites.

The understanding will help the country's premier space body, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), boost its earnings. It will also help the once-estranged democracies get into a tighter strategic partnership.

Some last-minute refinements in the agreement are being worked out relating to pre-launch treatment of US satellites on Indian rockets.

But these, say top sources, are procedural issues, which both sides expect to be sorted out at the next meeting of the space working group.

India has already accepted two US payloads for the Chandrayaan mission. More such joint endeavours are now expected, and together with that, closer exchange of strategic space technologies.

But technology aside, coming after a slew of agreements with the US, this is evidence of the growing closeness between India and the US.

This may not evoke the protests that greeted the N-pact with the US. The opposition BJP, which put the train in motion, cannot, in all honesty, oppose the deal. Even Left parties seem to be coming round to accepting the gains for India, if their internal divisions regarding the India-US New Deal are any indication.

ISRO chief Madhavan Nair, who travelled to Washington with the PM, returned with three of ISRO's key facilities taken out of the US Entities List.

Of special interest was the removal of the Space Applications Centre, Ahmedabad, ISRO Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network (ISTRAC) and ISRO Inertial Systems Unit (IISU). Earlier in September 2004, seven facilities had been taken off the list.

Once the space pact comes through, India will have a good chance to pitch for commercial satellite launch projects, because there are only three others in this business France, Russia and China. Analysts here indicated that the US would probably prefer Indian rockets to Russian and French rockets, and certainly the Chinese ones.

Salient features of the pact:

1) Pact will allow India to launch US-made satellites.
2) Both sides looking to strengthen strategic partnership.
3) India has already accepted two payloads for Chandrayaan.
4) Three ISRO facilities out of US Entities List.
5) If deal comes through, India will be able to pitch for commercial satellite launches

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...ow/1188061.cms
Good news! India should align itself with developed nations specifically US, not distance itself as its been doing in past. At the same time be careful else next thing you know in return US is asking India to sign some bullshit international agreements over space missions to prevent it from exploring space, under some stupid reason like prevention of space pollution and such bullshit. Technology wise Indians have always been equally "capable" compared to developed nations. Its the Indian leaders and politicians who have failed to establish correct foreigh policies to benifit India. Well but winds are changing. Watch out world!
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Old August 1st, 2005, 02:26 PM
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Re: India, US join hands in space

Quote:
Originally Posted by tapasvi
Good news! India should align itself with developed nations specifically US, not distance itself as its been doing in past. At the same time be careful else next thing you know in return US is asking India to sign some bullshit international agreements over space missions to prevent it from exploring space, under some stupid reason like prevention of space pollution and such bullshit. Technology wise Indians have always been equally "capable" compared to developed nations. Its the Indian leaders and politicians who have failed to establish correct foreigh policies to benifit India. Well but winds are changing. Watch out world!
yeah right..........all Indian scientists and engineers are unsung geniuses who have the misfortune of having to serve dumbass politicians while their foreign counterparts have the good fortune to serve the brightest politicians the world has to offer
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Old August 1st, 2005, 02:38 PM
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Re: India, US join hands in space

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
yeah right..........all Indian scientists and engineers are unsung geniuses who have the misfortune of having to serve dumbass politicians while their foreign counterparts have the good fortune to serve the brightest politicians the world has to offer
the latest example being that of the DRDO mess, MBT Arjun

Arjun MBTs dogged by fresh snags

According to defence ministry sources, DRDO has already incurred an expenditure of about Rs 3,300 crore on the development and production of the Arjun Tanks from 1976, when the cabinet gave the go-ahead for its development till date. Though the go-ahead for 125 tanks has been cleared by the Government, only five tanks have rolled out, besides some more tanks, which were handed over to the army for emergency trials before 'Parakaram'.

To make matters worse, Pakistan which began development work on its indigenous Al Khalid Main battle tank after India has already started inducting the tank into its armoured elements.

The Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence has already expressed alarm over the delay in the project and even gone to the extent of calling for carrying out "performance audit" for DRDO to such sensitive national security programmes.

It has also said that both DRDO and Ordnance Factory Board "cannot be absolved of their prime responsibility to ensure that production model of the Arjun tanks meets user requirements in every respect." Stung by strong criticism, DRDO officials claim that Arjun tanks have superior armour defeating capability, day and night operational capability, remarkable mobility, high degree of immunity and fire on the move capability and excellent ride comfort.

Officials are now claiming that the Arjun Tank is superior to T-90 due to its high power to weight ratio, superior fire and move capability and excellent ride comfort.

Either Indian Army has bunch of morons as combat engineers (very unlikely) OR DRDO has bunch of morons for scientists who after bungling several thousand crores of rupees and several years still end up with a piece of shit that army does not want

Compare that to Al Khalid....it already is on par with T90...agreed it is a chinese design and with a ukranian engine...but doesn't Arjun need a German engine too?
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Old August 1st, 2005, 03:05 PM
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Re: India, US join hands in space

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
the latest example being that of the DRDO mess, MBT Arjun

Arjun MBTs dogged by fresh snags

According to defence ministry sources, DRDO has already incurred an expenditure of about Rs 3,300 crore on the development and production of the Arjun Tanks from 1976, when the cabinet gave the go-ahead for its development till date. Though the go-ahead for 125 tanks has been cleared by the Government, only five tanks have rolled out, besides some more tanks, which were handed over to the army for emergency trials before 'Parakaram'.

To make matters worse, Pakistan which began development work on its indigenous Al Khalid Main battle tank after India has already started inducting the tank into its armoured elements.

The Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence has already expressed alarm over the delay in the project and even gone to the extent of calling for carrying out "performance audit" for DRDO to such sensitive national security programmes.

It has also said that both DRDO and Ordnance Factory Board "cannot be absolved of their prime responsibility to ensure that production model of the Arjun tanks meets user requirements in every respect." Stung by strong criticism, DRDO officials claim that Arjun tanks have superior armour defeating capability, day and night operational capability, remarkable mobility, high degree of immunity and fire on the move capability and excellent ride comfort.

Officials are now claiming that the Arjun Tank is superior to T-90 due to its high power to weight ratio, superior fire and move capability and excellent ride comfort.

Either Indian Army has bunch of morons as combat engineers (very unlikely) OR DRDO has bunch of morons for scientists who after bungling several thousand crores of rupees and several years still end up with a piece of shit that army does not want

Compare that to Al Khalid....it already is on par with T90...agreed it is a chinese design and with a ukranian engine...but doesn't Arjun need a German engine too?
One of my colleagues and good friends is a smart engineer who used to work for DRDO. He has completed his education on scholarships and worked with DRDO. Soon he got bored of it all - poor salary, no recognition, caste based politics in promotions and the whole nine yards! Today he is here, working with me.

If I know one smart and deserving engineer who has quit DRDO then I can imagine how many must have quit and what quality of engineers are left back at DRDO.

I am sure DRDo is now run by the Babab Bhosdekars who dont know the difference between an armoured tank and a Tata Truck! Otherwise why does it take so long for DRDO to deliver on this tank? Its not like they are building a commercially viable car
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Old August 1st, 2005, 03:15 PM
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Re: India, US join hands in space

dhrru bhai, dont just talk abt Arjun like that. the Army isnt a saint in this case. sicne the start of the project, they changed their requirement upteem times. now how can DRDO deliver a product when the client (the army) keeps changing its requirements everyday?? i aint saying DRDO is perfect but army isnt too coz lot of its equiment procurement officers are bribed by russian defence companies agents!

coming to Al-khalid, everyone knows that pakis have perfected painting technology. it fooled even ur eyes, dhrru!
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Old August 1st, 2005, 03:20 PM
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Re: India, US join hands in space

Admittedly the Arjun will not find favour as a Main Battle tank (MBT) however its development has not been a futile exercise.

The benefits of integrating various organisations such as the user,DRDO ,Ordnance factories, ancillary suppliers and foreign OEMs for such a gigantic activity cannot be overemphasised.It has had its ripple effect on other programmes - BMP upgrade,T72 modernisation and the use of the Arjun hull (chassis) for a possible Artillery Self Propelled system , not to mention development of Kanchan Armour,Tank Communication Harness,Electronic Gun Control - all of which would not have been even conceptualised in the absence a 'mother' project such as the Arjun.

Design , development and induction of major weapon systems is a herculean task , not for the weak and faint-hearted and if India wants to join the big league it has to pay the price of time and money. Last but not the least the enormous advantage of creating a vast 'bank' of experinced human resource.
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Old August 1st, 2005, 03:23 PM
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Re: India, US join hands in space

The Indian media's DRDO bash-fest usually keeps a laser-like focus on the alleged failures of DRDO, like the Arjun tank and the Trishul missile system.

But the reader may be surprised to know that there is a whole slew of DRDO designed and developed products that have proved to be a big hit with the armed services, in addition to saving the exchequer of many crores of rupees. Let us look at some specific examples.

When it comes to military modernisation, some of the priciest systems to modernise are radars, detection and surveillance and electronic warfare equipment. Most cutting edge technologies are simply not available in the market while the available technology is prohibitively expensive.

So how did DRDO respond to the Indian requirements in the above area?

In January 2004, the Indian Army accepted the Samyuktha electronic warfare (EW) system developed by DRDO.

Consisting of 145 vehicles with various subsystems, the Samyuktha provides the army with the ability to detect and jam enemy communications, monitor movements -- an ability that only a few select nations possess. In fact, even though the US imposed sanctions in 1998 could have impaired the Samyuktha project, DRDO scientists overcame the obstacles to develop this state of the art system.

The advanced phased-array radar associated with the Samyuktha, called the Rajendra, was also indigenously developed by DRDO. The Rajendra radar is also part of the Akash medium range surface-to-air missile system, which is currently undergoing advanced trials with the army and air force. A 3D Central Acquisition Radar (3DCAR) is also undergoing trials with users.

DRDO has also leveraged the Rajendra project to develop an advanced Weapon-Locating Radar (WLR), the likes of which would have been invaluable in a war like Kargil, where the Pakistanis had American WLRs and the Indian Army lacked a similar product.

The EW suites for the Indian Navy and the Indian Air Force, titled Sangraha and Tempest respectively, have also met with great success.

For instance, the Tarang Radar Warning Receiver (RWR), a key aircraft EW component, has been successfully installed in the upgraded IAF MiG-21 fighters, the MiG-27 strike planes and the incomparable Su-30MKI air-dominance fighters. Another EW component, the Tusker Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) pod, is also in IAF service.

In fact, the IAF has been a happy DRDO customer for a long time and now routinely relies on local innovations in the fields of avionics, radar and communications.

The Su-30MKI, for instance is a cut above the similar Su-30MKK that the Russians developed for China because the former relies on cutting edge Indian components such as the Mission Computer, Display Processor, Radar Computer, Integrated communication equipment, Radar Altimeter and Programmable Signal Processors, all designed and developed by DRDO under a project titled 'Vetrivale.'

This avionics suite, built locally, costs less than 20 per cent of Western made systems, which may not even offer the same level of technology to the IAF. The Russians were so impressed by the Vetrivale avionics that they asked to incorporate some of the technology to the Su-30 variants they sold to Malaysia.

DRDO technology was also used in IAF's local upgrade efforts of the MiG-27 and Jaguar strike aircraft, saving millions of dollars in foreign exchange. The IAF has also lavishly praised and ordered DRDO developed Indra-II advanced low-level detection radar.

The IAF is widely using the indigenous multi-mission Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH), named Dhruv, developed by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited with support from DRDO. Dhruv has won international accolades and have evoked interest from nations like Chile. It recently set a world record by flying at an altitude of 27,000 feet above mean sea level. The Indian Army and Indian Navy are also acquiring purpose-built Dhruv variants.

The biggest IAF system built by DRDO is the Light Combat Aircraft. While a detailed analysis of the LCA project is beyond the scope of this article, one can safely say that the LCA is a definite success for Indian aviation and has silenced all detractors, at least the ones who stick to facts.

The LCA has also resulted in spin-offs such as the Sitara Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT), which was built from scratch in a record time of 22 months and has received accolades from the end user. Efforts are now underway to build an indigenous Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) and a small indigenous Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AWACS).

The Indian Navy has even more enthusiastically embraced DRDO products.

Many navy vessels such as the Rajput class and Veer class ships use DRDO's Ajanta Electronic Support Measures (ESM) system. Under the Sangraha EW program, DRDO has completed the development of five types of EW systems. Sanket, an ESM system for patrol boats has already been ordered by the navy. An airborne EW system called KITE has also been successfully tested.

The navy is also testing submarine EW systems, all developed under the Sangraha project. Essentially, thanks to DRDO, the Indian Navy now has airborne, surface ship borne and submarine electronic warfare systems. Given the fact that Pakistan is getting advanced naval reconnaissance systems from the US under the guise of the war on terror, DRDO's work in the Naval EW area goes beyond the savings of millions of dollars.

DRDO has also produced the APSOH, Nagan, Ushus, Humsa and Panchendriya (submarine) sonars for the Indian Navy as well as the SV-2000 maritime patrol radar and the Mihir Sonar for the naval version of the Dhruv helicopter. A lightweight torpedo for helicopter and ship launched attacks on submarines, developed by DRDO, has also been recently cleared for production.

The lethal BrahMos, which is the world's only supersonic stealth cruise missile, was jointly developed by DRDO with Russia. The BrahMos is deadlier than the American Tomahawk missile which flies at a sub-sonic speed. DRDO's contribution to BrahMos includes the onboard navigation system, onboard computer, electronics, fire control system, software and some parts of the propulsion system.

In general, one can see that the navy and air force, which usually don't have the army's big budget to go shopping abroad for everything, have developed an excellent working relationship with DRDO to get whatever they can locally and are satisfied with the results.

Despite the well-publicised 'failings' of the Arjun, the army too has silently built up fruitful partnership with DRDO agencies for systems that are unavailable overseas and India-specific assets for use in counter-insurgency and high-altitude operations.

For instance, the army's aviation wing recently decided to trim its purchase of foreign-made high-altitude helicopters from 198 to 35, reducing the expected bill from $440 million to $80 million, and procure the HAL Dhruv because of the Dhruv's excellent high-altitude performance.

The 5.56mm INSAS fixed-butt rifle, which has been put through one of the most gruelling series of user trials in the history of small arms development, has become a mainstay of the Indian infantry since 1997, with lakhs of units in service. Other versions of the INSAS are now being inducted as well.

The Army has also inducted many counter-insurgency assets developed by DRDO. They include Sujav, a frequency jamming equipment and Safari, a jamming device for Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs).

The indigenous battery-powered man portable battlefield surveillance radar (BFSR-SR) weighing 27kg was developed by DRDO in a short period of 24 months. It is capable of detecting crawling men at 500 metres, moving groups of people at 5 km and a group of vehicles at 10 km -- a tremendous asset along the Line of Control with Pakistan.

The army has also ordered DRDO's Nishant Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV), which is fully capable of instantly providing time-sensitive battlefield intelligence to field commanders.

Other unheralded DRDO products for the army include the lethal Pinaka Multi-Barrel Rocket Launcher, the Shakti Artillery Combat Command Control System which connects massed artillery guns and makes them 10 times more effective, the Lakshya pilotless target aircraft, the Bridge Layer Tank on a T-72 chassis, the Sarvatra multi-span bridge, various combat simulators, a mobile Nuclear, Biological and Chemical (NBC) decontamination system -- all of which are in production or already in service.

These form just a part of DRDO's products that have proven to be successful with the defence services. Yet all we hear in our media is an endless stream of negativity about India's Defence R&D efforts.
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Old August 1st, 2005, 03:34 PM
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Re: India, US join hands in space

Here's more from DRDO:

after arjun comes,

Tank-Ex: DRDO's New Tank

Tank-Ex is a significant development and is the second attempt (after the successful Combat Improved Ajeya /upgraded T-72M1)by the Arjun MBT developers to harness its technology spin-offs. The Tank Ex appears to be an ideal solution for upgrading the Indian Army's vast and aging T-72M1 fleet. Having undergone six months of trials in Rajasthan till now, it will presumably need many more to be fine tuned per Army requirements. However, it must be noted that the two crucial "parts" of the Tank Ex - namely the Arjun turret with its weapon system and the T-72M1 (Ajeya) platform/chassis are well tested and already certified by the Army.

General details:

*

Crew: 4 - commander, gunner, loader and driver.
*

Combat weight: The Tank -Ex at 47 tons is heavier than the T-72M1 (41 tons) and much lighter than the Arjun MBT, which tips the scales at 58.5 tons.
*

Power plant:The Tank-Ex has a 1000 hp power plant (as on the Combat Improved Ajeya) giving a power to weight ratio of 21 hp/ton for a weight of 47 tons. This represents an improvement over the T-72M1's 20 hp/ton with a weight of 41 tons and an 780 hp power plant.
*

Ground pressure: 0.94 Kgf/cm Square, marginally higher than the T-72M1's 0.90 Kgf/cm square.
*

Suspension: Torsion bar with hydrostruts; also an improvement over the T-72M1 torsion bar system.
*

Dimensions: The usage of the T-72M1 chassis gives the Tank Ex a lower silhouette than the Arjun MBT, which stands tall at 3.03 meters (over AD gun mount).

Length (gun forward): 9.19metres

Width(over tracks): 3.37metres

Height(over AD gun mount): 2.93metres

Ground clearance: 0.47metres

Armament: The Tank Ex utilizes the Arjun MBT's 120mm rifled gun firing unitary APFSDS and HESH semi combustible cartridge case ammunition. A total of 32 rounds are carried as compared to 39 in the Arjun and 45 two piece ones in the T-72.The Arjun's armament system is the most powerful one available to Indian developers today. The choice of calibre, weapon design and ammunition make it superior to the in-service 125mm 2A46 guns on the T-72M1. The Tank Ex retains the Arjun's third generation director type integrated FCS (Fire Control System) including a sophisticated digital ballistic computer. It may be noted that the Arjun FCS is an updated one(with digital components replacing the original analogue ones) as compared to the original, which faced numerous technical problems. Firepower trials validated the efficacy of the updated Arjun FCS and led to its recent acceptance by the Army. Capable of firing on the move, the Tank Ex also is fully "night ready" with the gunner having a thermal imager integrated with his main sight. A standby articulated sight is provided as backup for the main sight. The tank commander (as in the Arjun MBT) has his own fully stabilized sight with relevant controls for surveillance, target acquisition and engagement, giving excellent hunter-killer ability. The gun control system is electro-hydraulic. Gun elevation/depression is +16.5 deg/-10 deg , better than the T-72M1's + 14 deg/-6 deg. As in the Arjun MBT and the T-72M1, a co-axial 7.62mm PKT machine gun and a 12.7mm NVST Heavy Machine gun(air defense) are standard. The tank also incorporates an Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) to operate the weapons systems in silent watch mode.

Navigational aids: A global positioning system is provided for accurate navigation. This is a feature common to both the Arjun MBT as well as the Combat Improved Ajeya .

Protection: The Tank Ex utilizes the state of the Art composite armor-"kanchan"-especially over its frontal arc(Turret as well as glacis) giving excellent protection against both Kinetic and Chemical rounds. The usage of the Arjun turret design indicates that the Tank-Ex may also have its "ready" ammunition stored in the bustle (as in the Arjun),separated from the crew and provided with blow off panels. This would be a significant protective feature in line with "western" design practices. Kanchan is an extensively tested and successful armor, which is available for retrofit to other IFV programs. The Tank Ex also has fully integrated Nuclear Biological and Chemical (NBC) protection The usual turret mounted 81mm antithermal smoke grenade launchers are also standard on the Tank-Ex.

Performance and Obstacle Negotiation: The Tank Ex retains the T-72 attributes of speed and agility with a maximum speed of 60 km/hr (on road) and 40 km/hr (cross country).While the gradient climbing at 30 degrees it remains in line with all variants of the T-72 like the B(M). The Tank Ex is better at trench crossing.(2.6 metres as compared to the T-72M1's 2.28 meters).Vertical Obstacles 0.85 metres tall can be surmounted, same as the T-72M1.Shallow fording is quoted as 1.2 metres.

more @ Bharat-Rakshak

the 3,300 crore experience doesnt go waste dhurru! this tank is already being evaluated by the army.
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  #11  
Old August 1st, 2005, 03:45 PM
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Angry Re: India, US join hands in space

Quote:
Originally Posted by echarcha
I am sure DRDo is now run by the Babab Bhosdekars who dont know the difference between an armoured tank and a Tata Truck! Otherwise why does it take so long for DRDO to deliver on this tank? Its not like they are building a commercially viable car
kya karthe sir? when even russians, one of the best military hardware developers, like some DRDO inventions that too in advance avionics, we have a media and 'informed' public which thinks that DRDO doesnt know difference between armoured tank and a Tata Truck! and then there are people who place chinese brought, paint jobed pakistani tanks above indian inventions.

and then we have 'expert' opinions and reports from economists about how projects like LCA are failures. somehow economists have become experts in matters concerning defence and the media laps up each and every word of such assh*les!
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Old August 1st, 2005, 03:45 PM
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Re: India, US join hands in space

Quote:
Originally Posted by rameshp
dhrru bhai, dont just talk abt Arjun like that. the Army isnt a saint in this case. sicne the start of the project, they changed their requirement upteem times. now how can DRDO deliver a product when the client (the army) keeps changing its requirements everyday?? i aint saying DRDO is perfect but army isnt too coz lot of its equiment procurement officers are bribed by russian defence companies agents!

coming to Al-khalid, everyone knows that pakis have perfected painting technology. it fooled even ur eyes, dhrru!
army HAS to change its requirements for MBT to keep up to date with what enemy has......changing requirements and goals is a NORM in engineering sector...you will know once you graduate and get a real life job.

As for al Khalid it is a chinese-Pak collaboration....its easy to be blind to reality and "misunderestimate" enemy's potential...after all we all love to indulge in a notion that Pakistan cannot even manufacture its own needles...but in last 20 years things have changed....not that I am saying that Pakistan can make its own automobile, but its engineering capabilities as related to defence hardware has significantly improved

To answer Padhu's posts....for some strange reason....India has made an asymmetric progress. What I mean is that while in software/telecommunication/electronics-avionics/satellite sector it has excelled, the progress is disappointing in "large scale/heavy duty" hardware sector like artillery guns/MBTs/solid rocket motors/nuclear power generation/gas turbines and such

I think although we have entitites like BHEL and Bharat Dynamics we still end up importing electric locomotives from switzerland, we still don't have our own steam/gas turbine manufacturing capabilities and nuclear power generation technology is also not up to the par
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Old August 1st, 2005, 03:50 PM
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Re: India, US join hands in space

Quote:
Originally Posted by rameshp
kya karthe sir? when even russians, one of the best military hardware developers, like some DRDO inventions that too in advance avionics, we have a media and 'informed' public which thinks that DRDO doesnt know difference between armoured tank and a Tata Truck! and then there are people who place chinese brought, paint jobed pakistani tanks above indian inventions.

and then we have 'expert' opinions and reports from economists about how projects like LCA are failures. somehow economists have become experts in matters concerning defence and the media laps up each and every word of such assh*les!
If ministry of defence scrutinizes DRDO....does that mean its not authentic entity to scrutinize DRDO...if not, who else in India is authorized to scrutinize DRDO?
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Old August 1st, 2005, 03:54 PM
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Re: India, US join hands in space

Quote:
Originally Posted by padhu

Once the space pact comes through, India will have a good chance to pitch for commercial satellite launch projects, because there are only three others in this business France, Russia and China. Analysts here indicated that the US would probably prefer Indian rockets to Russian and French rockets, and certainly the Chinese ones.

Salient features of the pact:

1) Pact will allow India to launch US-made satellites.
2) Both sides looking to strengthen strategic partnership.
3) India has already accepted two payloads for Chandrayaan.
4) Three ISRO facilities out of US Entities List.
5) If deal comes through, India will be able to pitch for commercial satellite launches

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...ow/1188061.cms
It seems that Russian space industry may not be very hi-fi but sure is very reliable

Russians Still Proud of Soyuz Spacecraft By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV, Associated Press Writer
Mon Aug 1, 2:10 PM ET



MOSCOW - As NASA frets over the space shuttle's new troubles, Russian space officials are glowing with pride for their 40-year old workhorse the cramped but reliable Soyuz spacecraft.

When NASA grounded future shuttle flights last week, a senior Russian space official even proposed quickly building several Soyuz vehicles to evacuate the shuttle's crew of seven along with the two-man crew of the international space station in case the Discovery couldn't return.

"If we work really hard, we can bring nine people down in January and February by three Soyuzes," said Nikolai Sevastyanov, head of the state-controlled RKK Energia rocket maker.

The proposal was a bit hyperbolic the astronauts don't have food and water to last that long but it reflected the esteem Russian space officials have for their veteran spacecraft.

Russia's manned space program has had no fatalities since three cosmonauts died during re-entry in 1971, while 14 astronauts have been killed in space shuttle disasters during the past two decades.

The Soyuz and its unmanned cargo version, the Progress, date from the mid-1960s and can be used only once, unlike the space shuttles. A Progress costs about $22 million and a Soyuz slightly more. The newest shuttle, the Endeavour, cost $2 billion more than a decade ago.

Compared with the roomy shuttle, the Soyuz is decidedly claustrophobic. Three cosmonauts have to stay in their seats during the entire two-day trip to the international space station. A Progress can carry only 2.75 tons of cargo, less than a fifth of what a U.S. shuttle can haul.

But Russian space officials and cosmonauts bristle at critics who point to their ship's age, saying the latest version, the Soyuz TM, has modern engines and computers and is similar to the original Soyuz only in general shape.

In the late 1980s, the Soviet space program built its own version of the shuttle, the Buran, which made a successful maiden flight in 1988.

Soviet officials claimed at the time that the Buran was superior to its American rival because of its ability to fly on autopilot and its bigger capacity, but the program was mothballed amid the chaos and money shortages before the Soviet Union's collapse in 1991.

Several Buran shuttles are rusting in hangars and one sits forlornly in a junkyard adjacent to the railroad tracks that carry Soyuz assemblies to the launching pad at the Baikonur cosmodrome in Kazakhstan. Another Buran is on display in Moscow's Gorky Park.

In recent years, though, earnings from Russian oil sales have allowed an increase in the space agency's budget and its leaders are pondering a Soyuz replacement called Clipper.

Nikolai Moiseyev, deputy head of the Russian space agency, said recently that the Clipper would be reusable but wouldn't be modeled on the U.S. shuttle or the Buran.

"Many experts believe that combining crew and cargo deliveries in one ship is irrational from the point of view of safety," Moiseyev said.

Despite recent funding increases, Russia's space budget of $638 million this year is dwarfed by NASA's budget of $16.5 billion. Russian space officials are courting the European Space Agency, offering to jointly develop the Clipper and share costs.

During the 2 1/2-year break in the shuttle program after the 2003 Columbia disaster, Russian spacecraft served as the sole link to the international space station.

Russia and other nations participating in the station project had been impatient to see the shuttle's return to service because the U.S. craft are the only vehicles that can deliver new modules and other bulky equipment needed to complete construction of the space outpost.

In case of a lengthy suspension of shuttle flights, Russian space officials warned they will charge Americans for further Soyuz and Progress missions to the station. Previous flights didn't earn Moscow any money because it needed to repay debts to NASA, but officials say flights starting in 2006 will be conducted on commercial basis.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050801/...NlYwMlJVRPUCUl
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Old August 1st, 2005, 03:58 PM
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Re: India, US join hands in space

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
As for al Khalid it is a chinese-Pak collaboration....its easy to be blind to reality and "misunderestimate" enemy's potential...after all we all love to indulge in a notion that Pakistan cannot even manufacture its own needles...but in last 20 years things have changed....not that I am saying that Pakistan can make its own automobile, but its engineering capabilities as related to defence hardware has significantly improved

To answer Padhu's posts....for some strange reason....India has made an asymmetric progress. What I mean is that while in software/telecommunication/electronics-avionics/satellite sector it has excelled, the progress is disappointing in "large scale/heavy duty" hardware sector like artillery guns/MBTs/solid rocket motors/nuclear power generation/gas turbines and such

I think although we have entitites like BHEL and Bharat Dynamics we still end up importing electric locomotives from switzerland, we still don't have our own steam/gas turbine manufacturing capabilities and nuclear power generation technology is also not up to the par
who told u pak cant make an automobile? that too they achieved in to make it for a measly Rs. 1 lakh except that it had the capabilities of a golf cart.

and then pakis have perfected designing and painting of defence equipment. i guess even asian paints (an indian company) trains its engineers at pakistani defence R&D establishments. how can u say i 'underestimate' paki R&D capabilities!

as for heavy duty manufacturing, we are still learning that. GTRE has done some work on kaveri engine and it will suceed sooner or later. so give some time and our R&D establishments will shine. ofcourse there are a lot of delays and finance mismangements but they will be lesser and lesser as we progress.
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