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  #91  
Old September 15th, 2008, 06:23 PM
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by HarHarMahaDev View Post
If that's the case, prepared to be judged too. Don't scurry away anytime you are put on the stand.

The only thing I find you good at, is in obfuscating simple issues. You add no real value to any discussion but prance around like a joker and pretends to be the final authority.

If you read thru this thread again, you will see it. You flip-flop on both issues, attacking my character while singing odes of kranti. No problem for me, but definitely noise for somebody who wants to focus on the debate. I prefer discussing issues with ppl like kranti who have a clearly stated position, than a wannabe-politician like u.
I need not take off gloves to debate you cause you are getting frustrated and confused.

It is you who comes up with shifty one liners. Wasn't it yesterday that you brought in message and messenger shit? What happened ... I replied to you. Message and messenger need each other. One is nothing without other. Gandhiji is just another screwed-up Kangressi if non-violence movement is removed. Non-violence loses its lustre if you take away the messenger ... Ghandhiji.

You think you are smart ... prove it. Indulge me. Now don't come back with another shifty one liner.

My stand has been and remain ... you are a good writer but listening skills are lacking. I told you in earlier post ... I sit on a fence ... ready to fall ... which side ... I wait to be convinced. You call it flip flop ... for intelligent among us its called wisdom!
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  #92  
Old September 15th, 2008, 07:32 PM
HarHarMahaDev HarHarMahaDev is offline
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by tantric_yogi View Post
I need not take off gloves to debate you cause you are getting frustrated and confused.

It is you who comes up with shifty one liners. Wasn't it yesterday that you brought in message and messenger shit? What happened ... I replied to you. Message and messenger need each other. One is nothing without other. Gandhiji is just another screwed-up Kangressi if non-violence movement is removed. Non-violence loses its lustre if you take away the messenger ... Ghandhiji.

You think you are smart ... prove it. Indulge me. Now don't come back with another shifty one liner.

My stand has been and remain ... you are a good writer but listening skills are lacking. I told you in earlier post ... I sit on a fence ... ready to fall ... which side ... I wait to be convinced. You call it flip flop ... for intelligent among us its called wisdom!
Ok, Mr. Self-conferred wise man...can you please share some of your saintly wisdom with us? Or should we all join you on your fence-sitting, wait-for-divine-light-to-shine-on-us quest for knowledge? Or are you waiting for somebody to ring the bell before you drop your nuggets of wisdom on this site? What is on your profound mind, pray tell...o master? I await with bated breath.
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  #93  
Old September 15th, 2008, 07:40 PM
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by tantric_yogi View Post
Wow ... wow ... wow!!! Sir, while you were shifting pages of Shakespeare's tobeees and donttobees and kissa-e-laila-majnu ... we were being given dose after dose of Munshiji's miserable books. He picked up garbage of our society and added his own personal miseries and people loved it cause it was not happening to them.

We grew up hating everything brahmin, culture, family, hinduism thanks to curriculum books like Godan, It has taken me years to shakeoff images created by fiction writers such as Munshiji. There are millions of men like me with impressions still imposed intact. Every religion and faith got its fair share of good and bad ... good priests and bad priests of Christianity. Good maulvis and bad. Why the fuck do we expect our religion to be free of scum? But to turn deeds of some rascals among the brahmins in to a gurumantra for every Hindu to recite every given opportunity is a crime and Munshijis books ought to be banned from schools.

I am wasting my tem ... you don't even know what I am talking about.
Notions....pre-conceived notions and then reverse snobbery..... FYI, yours untruly was also flipping through munshiji in salad days(thanks to the hindi medium govt. school)....of course was a little interested in the Bard too...

Must you criticize everything that is even remotely related to moderates of indian freedom struggle....from what I gather from your previous posts that you've been to north Indian states like Bihar, Rajasthan etc....(perhaps most feudalistic states of India)...yet you say that he took garbage from the society and garnished it with personal miseries and served it on platter....

Well, Sir, if it was garbage then this rubbish was rampant in the society....he just showed the mirror to the society...where intellectuals ,if religious, used to believe that somehow caste system had held the hindu community together.... if not then least cared about it....

Priest class invariably is corrupt across all religions across all times.... religion is the most corrupt, misleading and exploiting social institution. but religion sometimes give you paradoxical results too....the most amazing persons in the history are deeply religious also....

TYji... I value your opinion...I sincerely do....but of late I have a feeling (most probably I'm wrong) that when it comes to religion/caste you go off a little tangent to your usual rational self.... almost to the point of saying everything is fine except one or two exceptions.... are you perturbed somewhere deep inside that despite being capable enough Hinduism never proved to be the leading light of rational spirituality to the world??....the rigidity, the casteism held it from fulfilling the promise....
Is it the case of "apni dahi ko khatta kaise kahein"?
with all sincerity...with due apologies... you can delete this post if find inappropriate/derailing...
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  #94  
Old September 15th, 2008, 08:44 PM
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by HarHarMahaDev View Post
Ok, Mr. Self-conferred wise man...can you please share some of your saintly wisdom with us? Or should we all join you on your fence-sitting, wait-for-divine-light-to-shine-on-us quest for knowledge? Or are you waiting for somebody to ring the bell before you drop your nuggets of wisdom on this site? What is on your profound mind, pray tell...o master? I await with bated breath.
Too bad ... due to settings ... I got to read Chitrallaji's post before yours or else I would have ripped apart every single word of sarcasm in your post quoted above. Sarcasm ... NO! I read irony ... irony of it all.

Imagine irony of it all ... something with us for thousands of years ... and here we are waiting -for-divine-light-to-shine-on-us!

Later ...
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  #95  
Old September 15th, 2008, 08:51 PM
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Thumbs up Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by chitrala View Post
Notions....pre-conceived notions and then reverse snobbery..... FYI, yours untruly was also flipping through munshiji in salad days(thanks to the hindi medium govt. school)....of course was a little interested in the Bard too...

Must you criticize everything that is even remotely related to moderates of indian freedom struggle....from what I gather from your previous posts that you've been to north Indian states like Bihar, Rajasthan etc....(perhaps most feudalistic states of India)...yet you say that he took garbage from the society and garnished it with personal miseries and served it on platter....

Well, Sir, if it was garbage then this rubbish was rampant in the society....he just showed the mirror to the society...where intellectuals ,if religious, used to believe that somehow caste system had held the hindu community together.... if not then least cared about it....

Priest class invariably is corrupt across all religions across all times.... religion is the most corrupt, misleading and exploiting social institution. but religion sometimes give you paradoxical results too....the most amazing persons in the history are deeply religious also....

TYji... I value your opinion...I sincerely do....but of late I have a feeling (most probably I'm wrong) that when it comes to religion/caste you go off a little tangent to your usual rational self.... almost to the point of saying everything is fine except one or two exceptions.... are you perturbed somewhere deep inside that despite being capable enough Hinduism never proved to be the leading light of rational spirituality to the world??....the rigidity, the casteism held it from fulfilling the promise....
Is it the case of "apni dahi ko khatta kaise kahein"?


Chitralaji ... I was chuckling reading your post ... all the way and came last few lines starting with perturbed part. Shit ... you are as bad as Desibaba ... harami kuch bolta nahee aur jab bolta hei to dil cheer ke rakh de. You have pushed me in to Heignz Kohut's gauntlet ... will need to do lot of self-search and contemplation to be fair to you. Somewhere is the answer to our current debacle ... is this it? I don't know.
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Kal Agar Hum Dost Ban Jaayen ... To Sharminda Na Ho!


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दूर से देखने पर तो यही लगता था ... 'वाह! वहाँ क्या मजा होता होगा!'
बुरे फसें 'मजाल', आ कर जन्नत में ... हमने तो सोचा था, कुछ नया होता होगा!
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  #96  
Old September 15th, 2008, 11:08 PM
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by chitrala View Post
If i remember correctly it is mentioned in Manusmriti that Brahmins are not supposed to keep any wealth at all... they could keep the means of subsistence that last three days only... but it was never so....
Chitralalji ... I avoid googling as much as possible. But in the absence of someone knowledgeable ... left with no choice. Here is copy/paste. I was not way off ... based strictly on cosmology makes it a science. Gemology, nuemrology, and rest have been added later to pacify consulting public ... and of course ...$$$$.

Sanelessbhai ... last paragraph ought to interest you.

Source: Wikipedia.

Copy/paste:

The Bhrigu Samhita is an astrological (Jyotish) classic attributed to Maharishi Bhrigu during the Vedic period, Treta yuga, although the available evidence suggests that it was compiled over a period of time by the various sishyas (students in the lineage) of Maharishi Bhrigu.

[edit] The Origin

It was said that Maharishi Bhrigu insulted Lord Vishnu in false ego of considering himself the greatest Brahmin, but apologised immediately of his mistake and Lord Vishnu forgave him. But Lakshmi(the wealth goddess), wife of Lord Vishnu could not tolerate the insult of her husband. She gave a curse to Maharishi Bhrigu, that he and his community(Brahmins) to which he represents will be parted away from wealth. After apologising from Goddess too, she suggested him to write Bhrigu Samhita which contains predictions. In this way, Brahmins can earn their living by telling past,present and future of people. The Ashram of Maharishi was in present day Hoshiarpur, India. Major part of Bhrigu Samhita was destroyed during Muslim Invasions.

Maharishi Bhrigu was the first compiler of predictive astrology. He compiled about 500,000 horoscopes and recorded the life details and events of various persons. This formed a database for further research and study. This study culminated in the birth of the science (shastra) of determining the quality of time (Hora) and is the Brihat Parasara Hora Shastra. These Horoscopes were based upon the planetary positions of the Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Rahu (North Node of the Moon) and Ketu (South Node of the Moon). After that, Maharishi Bhrigu gave his predictions on different types of horoscopes compiled by him with the help of Lord Ganesha in a brief and concise manner. The total permutations/possible horoscope charts that can be drawn with this is about 45 million. Maharishi taught this art of predictions to his son (Shukra) and other pupils.

[edit] Lost manuscript

At present Bhrugusanhita(Original) is not available. During foreign invasions of India by Muslim warriors from the northwest in the 12th and 13th centuries, the brahmin community became dispersed all over India. The invaders captured these prime assets of the brahmins. Some parts of the 'Bhrigu Samhita' were taken away by them. The most unfortunate and destructive event was the destruction of the Nalanda university library by then Muslim rulers, where several thousands of the horoscopes compiled by Maharashi Bhrigu had been stored. Only a small percentage of the original horoscopes of Bhrigu Samhita remained with the brahmin community which are now scattered throughout various parts of India. THe manuscript was very important and if the same is avaiable , anyone can easily now his past , present or future with 100% prediction.
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Jamke Dushmani Karo Humse ... Magar Bas Itni Gunjaesh Hai Aapse
Kal Agar Hum Dost Ban Jaayen ... To Sharminda Na Ho!


LLKC ... pure and unadulterated ... LLKC!

दूर से देखने पर तो यही लगता था ... 'वाह! वहाँ क्या मजा होता होगा!'
बुरे फसें 'मजाल', आ कर जन्नत में ... हमने तो सोचा था, कुछ नया होता होगा!
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  #97  
Old September 16th, 2008, 06:26 AM
HarHarMahaDev HarHarMahaDev is offline
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

Random thoughts about Munshi Premchand, copy/paste from wikipedia - is this what passes off as wisdom nowadays?
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  #98  
Old September 16th, 2008, 07:47 AM
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by HarHarMahaDev View Post
Random thoughts about Munshi Premchand, copy/paste from wikipedia - is this what passes off as wisdom nowadays?

Uhmmm ... why would you be looking for wisdom on a forum meant for timepass?
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  #99  
Old September 16th, 2008, 08:12 AM
HarHarMahaDev HarHarMahaDev is offline
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Uhmmm ... why would you be looking for wisdom on a forum meant for timepass?
Usually I don't. But when xyz person claims to be the pillar of wisdom, then humble me just wants to learn.
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  #100  
Old September 16th, 2008, 10:29 AM
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by HarHarMahaDev View Post
It's a shame that people twist the content of Vedas and Rishis and our ancient texts to meet their own distorted world view.

Vedas were written in a different era, for a different set of people. It was a closely guarded secret, meant only for the highest order of Brahmins. Vedas contained rites and rituals - meant for specific purposes for specific people.

For e.g. - the Agnicayana yagna - was meant for kings before they launched an aggression. It was a 9-day long affair. Neighboring kings were invited...so as to determine and aggregate their support base.

The Ashwamedha yagna - another extremely important yagna - was meant for kings to mark their territory. So on and so forth.

There were rites and rituals to mark seasons and harvest times, birth, death, initiation rituals, etc. These rites and rituals had very specific objectives. I understand and am amazed at the profound thinking that has gone into structuring the vedas. It has the framework for nation-building, while retaining individual freedom. It's no wonder that ancient kings ruled the world. It is a subject for thorough academic discussion and evaluation.

Let us not trivialize the Vedas and the knowledge of our Rishis by using it as a justification for Astrology. The vedic saints never suggested that going to a temple and singing mantras will solve your everyday problems and automatically right some astrological wrongs! That is a complete unsubstantiated claim.

In fact, Vedas never supported idol worship. The main GOD in vedas was AGNI. There were others - Rudra, Saraswati, etc...but Rama, Krishna, Ganesha are not even mentioned in the vedas. So where are you pulling out all these 'remedies' from, about going to Hanuman temple and singing mantras, etc? (out of your ass I'm sure!!)
Indra was the main God in Vedas, not AGNI......!!!!!
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  #101  
Old September 16th, 2008, 10:42 AM
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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That is absolute hogwash. Caste system is the pillar of the Vedic thought. Whether it was explicitly stated in the vedas on not is subject to debate, but the fact that they were highly castist society cannot be debated. The Ramayana and Mahabharata are replete with casteist ideologies.
Ramayana and Mahabharat dont constitute Vedas......
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  #102  
Old September 16th, 2008, 10:54 AM
rahulpsharma rahulpsharma is offline
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by HarHarMahaDev View Post
Really? Karna was case-and-point. Bhisma, Pandavas, and even Krishna did not approve of Karna's participation in the war because of his SHudra status.

There are countless cases...but let me tell you that the caste system was not necessarily an evil thing. Brahmins and Kshatriyas constituted a small % of the population - somewhere I read that it was not more than 10%. 90% were business / farmers. They paid taxes for protection and did not participate in wars, etc. Kings and brahmins dispensed justice and maintained law and order. The society was relatively peaceful since it provided a very stable environment for the masses. When kings got 'taken over', they never harassed the masses. So it worked out well for everybody....of course, these are simply theories.
The caste system is present even in the modern society...... The CEOs, The CFOs, The Planners, The Strategists, The Middle Management, The Executives, The Supervisors, The Worker class...... The list is endless...... Caste system is needed in every walk of life...... The companies, the societies...... Everything..... If everyone became a brahmin or everyone became a Vaishya the system would collapse...... The vedic society was intelligent enuf to intentionally allow the caste system...... So blaming the Brahmins for consecrating the knowledge by deceit is rank wrong...... Knowledge was their domain just a valor was consecrated by the Kshtriyas....... The problem is with the followers of Knowledge or warriors or cleaners or merchants who allowed their professions to become profane........ Vedas didnt distinguish between professions....... Followers started doing it....... No one stopped Merchants from holding their profession high and mighty...... Brahmins would have been automatically subdued....... The strong dominates and survives...... So why blame brahmins or kshtriyas for monopolising their vocations....... Who stopped the others from doing the same.....???
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  #103  
Old September 16th, 2008, 11:22 AM
HarHarMahaDev HarHarMahaDev is offline
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by rahulpsharma View Post
Indra was the main God in Vedas, not AGNI......!!!!!
Yes. Indra was the ruler of the devas.
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  #104  
Old September 16th, 2008, 11:25 AM
HarHarMahaDev HarHarMahaDev is offline
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Ramayana and Mahabharat dont constitute Vedas......
Never said they did. However they are hindu religious texts and the value-system is derived entirely from the vedas ans upanishads.
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  #105  
Old September 16th, 2008, 12:09 PM
rahulpsharma rahulpsharma is offline
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by HarHarMahaDev View Post
Never said they did. However they are hindu religious texts and the value-system is derived entirely from the vedas ans upanishads.
The value system of Ramayana and Mahabharata stands in direct confrontation with each other..... Atleast in the caste based system sense, the topic that has been the core of some of the discussions....... I feel that Ramayana was deeply rooted in equality of all castes...... For instance, the 'naavik' who refuses to allow Ram to board his boat cos he suspects him to be 'mayavi' who converted a rock into a female (Ahalya), is also treated with respect and dignity by Ram despite having a higher caste and higher order of power....... Similarly, one washerman - a supposedly lower caste - casts asperations on the character of Sita and Ram again, instead of punishing him or insulting him, offers to drive Sita out of Ayodhaya...... Compare these instances in the backdrop of the instance you mentioned - Karna being barred from holding any exercises with the yuvrajs cos he was a Shudra.....!!!! The caste based system was more inclined to respect equality during the Ramayana days......

Even the value based system for females is depicted to be more ideal in Ramayan than in Mahabharat.......
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