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View Poll Results: Who is right?
Goswami Tulasidas 2 33.33%
Baba Amte 1 16.67%
Both (depends on context) 1 16.67%
Neither (depends on context) 2 33.33%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

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  #16  
Old June 28th, 2013, 12:42 PM
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Origmos Origmos is offline
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Re: Who is right?

Each and every emotion has its own rightful place in context of human development. Fallacy lies in extolling one virtue over another in a situation where it shouldn't belong in the first place.
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  #17  
Old June 29th, 2013, 10:07 AM
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Re: Who is right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Origmos View Post
Each and every emotion has its own rightful place in context of human development. Fallacy lies in extolling one virtue over another in a situation where it shouldn't belong in the first place.
In simple english please and in the context of the thread
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  #18  
Old June 29th, 2013, 10:13 AM
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Re: Who is right?

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Originally Posted by PeaceSeeker View Post
In simple english please and in the context of the thread
For example, the emotion of anger. Should a human try to suppress normal anger which arises within him/her due to some circumstance or should they try to alleviate the situation in a just manner that doesn't provoke that emotion within them? Should the human in question fight the emotion or the situation?

Here is an illustration of this example: Gandhi called upon the Jews to commit mass suicide to appease Hitler. In this case is Gandhi's love for Hitler so justified that he wants innocents to kill themselves to appease this one person or was his view flawed because he was trying to extol the emotion of love and self-sacrifice in a situation where it doesn't belong in the first place?
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  #19  
Old July 1st, 2013, 09:15 AM
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Re: Who is right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Origmos View Post
For example, the emotion of anger. Should a human try to suppress normal anger which arises within him/her due to some circumstance or should they try to alleviate the situation in a just manner that doesn't provoke that emotion within them? Should the human in question fight the emotion or the situation?

Here is an illustration of this example: Gandhi called upon the Jews to commit mass suicide to appease Hitler. In this case is Gandhi's love for Hitler so justified that he wants innocents to kill themselves to appease this one person or was his view flawed because he was trying to extol the emotion of love and self-sacrifice in a situation where it doesn't belong in the first place?
Phew!!
so u r saying fear and love should be treated as mutually exclusive? one need not be seen through prism of other? trying to find whether one can exist (or not) without other is akin to seeing one through prism of other?
Phew!!
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  #20  
Old July 1st, 2013, 12:17 PM
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Re: Who is right?

1) भय बिन प्रीत ना होए गोपाला - गोस्वामी तुलसीदास

I do not understand the above statement and it seems to be misquoted. Tulsidas the legendary poet who is well known for Ramcharitmanas and he devoted his life to lord Ram.
Gopala? Isn't that Krishna?

Let me quote the only context that I know from Tulsidas that says something close to the above:

vinay na manat jaladhi jad, gaye teen din beet,
bole Ram sakop tab, "bhay bin hoye na preet ?"

This is the incident that Lord Ram summons Varuna to appear by meditating for 3 days. Since Varuna did not appear even after requesting humbly for 3 days, Lord is enraged and asks "is there no love without fear? " and prepares to attack with brahmastra on the ocean.
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  #21  
Old July 1st, 2013, 01:09 PM
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Re: Who is right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceSeeker View Post
Phew!!
so u r saying fear and love should be treated as mutually exclusive? one need not be seen through prism of other? trying to find whether one can exist (or not) without other is akin to seeing one through prism of other?
Phew!!
Never make any assumption of a superiority of one emotion over another in any situation. Each and every situation is unique by itself and would need a solution catered to itself.

Fear, love, courage, hate. etc whatever. Any complex situation needs a careful balanced judgment of behavior. We can fear an object and love it at the same time.

Eg: A geologist studying his favorite active volcano. To survive in his profession, the geologist must strike a balance between his love for the subject and his fear of the same.

We can fear and hate an object at the same time.

Eg: Terrorists

We can hate something and not fear it

Eg: The Congress party.

We can fear something but not hate it.

Eg: A wild animal on the prowl

We can love something and not fear it.

Eg: Our mothers

Fear and love can be mutually exclusive or inclusive or maybe completely irrelevant to a situation. It depends on the situation and not the emotion involved behind it. We Indians are overly sentimental and suckers for sugary plastic emotions like puppy love.
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  #22  
Old July 1st, 2013, 01:11 PM
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Re: Who is right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by krantikari View Post
1) भय बिन प्रीत ना होए गोपाला - गोस्वामी तुलसीदास

I do not understand the above statement and it seems to be misquoted. Tulsidas the legendary poet who is well known for Ramcharitmanas and he devoted his life to lord Ram.
Gopala? Isn't that Krishna?

Let me quote the only context that I know from Tulsidas that says something close to the above:

vinay na manat jaladhi jad, gaye teen din beet,
bole Ram sakop tab, "bhay bin hoye na preet ?"

This is the incident that Lord Ram summons Varuna to appear by meditating for 3 days. Since Varuna did not appear even after requesting humbly for 3 days, Lord is enraged and asks "is there no love without fear? " and prepares to attack with brahmastra on the ocean.
I'm not translating the original statement. But the situation can be compared to the saying: Respect exists only with fear.

Clearly Lord Ram was angry that Varuna didn't respect him enough.
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  #23  
Old July 1st, 2013, 11:47 PM
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Re: Who is right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by krantikari View Post
1) भय बिन प्रीत ना होए गोपाला - गोस्वामी तुलसीदास

I do not understand the above statement and it seems to be misquoted. Tulsidas the legendary poet who is well known for Ramcharitmanas and he devoted his life to lord Ram.
Gopala? Isn't that Krishna?

Let me quote the only context that I know from Tulsidas that says something close to the above:

vinay na manat jaladhi jad, gaye teen din beet,
bole Ram sakop tab, "bhay bin hoye na preet ?"

This is the incident that Lord Ram summons Varuna to appear by meditating for 3 days. Since Varuna did not appear even after requesting humbly for 3 days, Lord is enraged and asks "is there no love without fear? " and prepares to attack with brahmastra on the ocean.
Reminds me of Rashtrakavi Dinkar

"Sach poocho to shar mein hi basti hai deepti vinay ki
Sandhi vachan sampujya usi ka jisme shakti vijay ki"

jeetIAF
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  #24  
Old July 2nd, 2013, 09:02 AM
PeaceSeeker PeaceSeeker is offline
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Re: Who is right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by krantikari View Post
1) भय बिन प्रीत ना होए गोपाला - गोस्वामी तुलसीदास

I do not understand the above statement and it seems to be misquoted. Tulsidas the legendary poet who is well known for Ramcharitmanas and he devoted his life to lord Ram.
Gopala? Isn't that Krishna?

Let me quote the only context that I know from Tulsidas that says something close to the above:

vinay na manat jaladhi jad, gaye teen din beet,
bole Ram sakop tab, "bhay bin hoye na preet ?"

This is the incident that Lord Ram summons Varuna to appear by meditating for 3 days. Since Varuna did not appear even after requesting humbly for 3 days, Lord is enraged and asks "is there no love without fear? " and prepares to attack with brahmastra on the ocean.
Unlike rop, a Ram bhakt can can revere Krishn too.

Dont just go by words. The verse also goes like "Bin bhay hoye na preet Gosai".

Thanks for providing the context. The "?" at the end may not have been part of Ram's words. Who was Ramji asking that question?

Without the question mark, and considering preet=respect (in the context), Ramji is saying that a powerful entity cannot respect a weaker one.

The context was wonderful, btw.
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  #25  
Old July 2nd, 2013, 11:20 PM
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Re: Who is right?

^^ But Ram and Krishn are Vishnu's avtaar, there is difference between Shaiva and Vaishnav sects as well,

Islam is Abrahmic, it is entirely different from nature worshipping religion, few of Islamic concepts like interest free banking, writing of Nikahnama (as a contract) are good things

But let us continue, this thread is not about Ram

"Raam naam ke naam bina parmarath ki aas
barasat baarish boond gahi chahat chadan akas"

Raam naak ke naam ke bina paramarth ki parapti ki aasha rakhna waisa hi hai jaisa baarish ki boondon ko pakad kar aakash chadne ki cheshta karna

jeetIAF
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  #26  
Old July 3rd, 2013, 08:05 AM
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Re: Who is right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeetiaf View Post
^^ But Ram and Krishn are Vishnu's avtaar, there is difference between Shaiva and Vaishnav sects as well,
jeetIAF
and therefore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeetiaf View Post
Islam is Abrahmic, it is entirely different from nature worshipping religion,
jeetIAF
yes we know. its different from all others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeetiaf View Post
few of Islamic concepts like interest free banking, writing of Nikahnama (as a contract) are good things
jeetIAF
nothing is good or bad in black & white. interest is bad when its sucked from poor & downtrodden. but give an entrepreneur interest laden loan and he might improve many lives along with his/her own.

But let us continue, this thread is not about Ram

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeetiaf View Post
"Raam naam ke naam bina parmarath ki aas
barasat baarish boond gahi chahat chadan akas"

Raam naak ke naam ke bina paramarth ki parapti ki aasha rakhna waisa hi hai jaisa baarish ki boondon ko pakad kar aakash chadne ki cheshta karna

jeetIAF
good one. I love such couplets which have not only have (deep) meaning but also rhyme perfectly.

Many ppl question how could Goswami come up with a huge poem called Ramcharitmanas. The thing is that the mahakaya just flowed out effortlessly once he was blessed.
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  #27  
Old July 3rd, 2013, 08:10 AM
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Re: Who is right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Origmos View Post

We can fear an object and love it at the same time. Eg: A geologist studying his favorite active volcano.

We can fear and hate an object at the same time. Eg: Terrorists

We can hate something and not fear it Eg: The Congress party.

We can fear something but not hate it. Eg: A wild animal on the prowl

We can love something and not fear it. Eg: Our mothers

you better be afraid of congress. ask Jagan Mohan Reddy
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