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  #1  
Old November 1st, 2010, 12:53 PM
Arbaaz Balushi Arbaaz Balushi is offline
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Is India a ‘Hindu’ State?

I don’t believe so. In India, a Shahrukh can give any sort of statement (in whatever context); can get his ‘muslim cause’ movie released with state protection; where an Ajay Devgan cannot even imagine in his widest dream to name his movie ‘Once Upon a Time in Bombay’; thought movie is about 70s-80s Mumbai.

Nevertheless, the author has couple of points to make.

Link

Quote:
Inspite of tall claims about being the largest democratic republic with secular, socialist, and progressive outlook, the only commonality on the ground in India is the Hindu religion!

Hinduism is claimed to be the oldest religion in the world and India is the home of it. From the ancient times the Hindu scriptures have been the guiding light for the millions of Indians. In our school days we used to read about Vedas and Puranas, the ancient Hindu texts. The Hindu religion in India is not something adopted by the people but it is their way of life.

A Hindu is not by conversion but by birth. It has been demonstrated umpteen times that all institutions in India cannot get rid of the underlying “Hindutva” feeling in spite of the best efforts by some people claiming to be secular in their outlook. Historically India has been a “Hindu” country from the times immemorial. Hinduism is ingrained in the psyche of the majority notwithstanding the modernization of the 21st century. In fact, Hinduism spread from India to a number of South East Asian countries like Indonesia. Hinduism in India had so strong roots that Buddhism that too was born in India as a religion could not establish itself fully here even though during the time of Ashoka, the great it had become the state religion. It rather spread to China and different countries of South Asia. A Hindu renaissance completely overtook Buddhism in India. The intense hatred which the Hindutva Brigade holds against Muslims has a specific background. Islam came to India peacefully at the same time as it spread in the Arabian Peninsula. Islamic preachers came to Kerala from Saudi Arabia and set up the earliest mosque in India. However, North India witnessed the violent forays by Muslim conquerors. It is a fact of history that the Muslims invaded India umpteen times. A number of these invaders like Mehmud of Ghazni, Nadir Shah, Ahmad Shah Abdali, Halagu Khan, and many others ravaged North India savagely. Their homes were destroyed, thousands were massacred, their temples were demolished, and in the long run they came and ruled India for over 800 years. Compared to North, the South India did not suffer the ravages. Moreover, there is an important basic difference in the philosophy of the religion in these two areas. North follows Vedanta while the South is Saivite. During the Muslim rule there were many conversions and India became home to a large Muslim population. The Hindus still considered these converts as relatives of the Muslim invaders. Then came the partition. Probably the Hindus feel that the invaders instead of leaving and letting them rest in peace have taken half of their country and made it a permanent home through their local converts. They are considered a continued extension of these invaders. One would have thought that the partition would remove the hatred as the two communities had their own countries to live peacefully. However, this did not happen because of a dichotomy. Pakistan became a country of Muslims. As a natural consequence India should have become the country of Hindus. But the Indian political leadership of partition days even after accepting the division of the country on religious grounds continued to call India a secular state. The RSS followers were not ready to accept partition as they felt that there was no justification to lose a part of their country to the people whom they considered extension of Muslim invaders. Gandhi also did not want partition but he was persuaded by Pandit Nehru. It is alleged that Pandit Nehru did not want to share power with Jinnah for whom Gandhi had a soft corner. Even Jaswant Singh of BJP has absolved Jinnah and holds Pandit Nehru responsible for partition. In any case, the partition could have ushered in peace and allowed the two communities to carry along side by side notwithstanding the massacres and migrations of 1947. The British played the mischief of leaving a religion based perennial sore of Kashmir between the two countries. They fought three wars over it. In spite of 63 years of living as neighbours they have failed to end the feeling of mistrust between them. Pakistanis fear that India is bent upon disintegrating their country. This had been demonstrated by the creation of Bangladesh by dismembering of Pakistan in which India played a significant role. Indians think that the Pakistanis are trying to bleed them through a thousand cuts for their own safety. A weak country will always try to adopt these types of tactics against a strong antagonist neighbour. In this mutual bickering both the countries are wasting major portion of their precious resources which should have normally been utilized to ameliorate the lot of their people significant number of whom are below poverty line. The only beneficiaries of this conflict are the western countries and Russia selling both the parties all varieties of armaments. Pakistan is now being judged as a failed state on way to disintegration. The only thing holding them together is the hyped religious basis of its creation. However, even this religious commonality has not been able to overcome the ethnic conflicts between Punjabis, Sindhis, Baluchis, and Pathans. In spite of 63 years stay in Pakistan the migrants from India still call themselves Mohajirs or refugees! They have failed to assimilate in a single social set up. The religion which was supposed to unite the various constituents has been used to rather disintegrate the state. The rulers have tried to moderate the religious extremism and chalk out a modern state but the religious extremists have turned inward. Instead of fighting Jihad against the enemies of the state, they are fighting the state itself. Pakistani rulers claim it to be an Islamic Republic but in reality it is neither truly Islamic nor a republic!
India is in no better position. In spite of claiming to be the largest democratic republic in the world in reality it is a camouflaged “Hindu State”. Again it is the Hindu religion which is the only commonality. Otherwise there is nothing common among its wide variety of the ethnic population from the East to the West and from the North to the South. It is the elite of the Hindu majority community which is holding the state together. Infact, Arundhati Roy calls it, “Upper Caste Hindu Corporate Republic!” It has a Hindu army, a Hindu police, a Hindu intelligence agency, a Hindu bureaucracy, and even a Hindu judiciary. The presence of other communities in the different institutions and organisations is not even miniscule in proportion to their population! Moreover, the personnel manning these organisations and institutions are not able to rise above their Hindu sentiment. May be if India had remained undivided, the feelings would have been different due to joint living resulting in extensive social interaction? The partition has created such an atmosphere of hate that the representatives of two sides cannot even sit on the same table and talk nicely to each other! It has become a tug of war between “Corporate Brahmins” and “Muslim Feudals”! The poor teeming millions on both sides are just the fodder for their guns! In spite of all the talk of secularism and socialism the thing which ultimately defines India as to what type of state it is in reality is the article 25(2)-B of the constitution. This article empowers the state to throw open religious institutions of a Hindu character. Word Hindu is further elucidated to include Buddhists and Jains also. Why not Muslims, Christians, or even Sikhs? How were the framers of the constitution certain that the state empowered to throw open Hindu institutions will always be a Hindu State? On all counts India is practically a Hindu State. In spite of all these facts the Indian Government claims India to be a secular state. However, this stand only harms India itself in the long run! On this hypocritical behaviour a friend recently remarked that “Packaging spoilt milk as cheese ultimately harms the seller!”
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  #2  
Old November 1st, 2010, 01:06 PM
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Rakhi Rakhi is offline
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Re: Is India a ‘Hindu’ State?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbaaz Balushi View Post
I don’t believe so. In India, a Shahrukh can give any sort of statement (in whatever context); can get his ‘muslim cause’ movie released with state protection; where an Ajay Devgan cannot even imagine in his widest dream to name his movie ‘Once Upon a Time in Bombay’; thought movie is about 70s-80s Mumbai.

Nevertheless, the author has couple of points to make.

Link
OK...what is your point here? Are you saying that India is not a Hindu state because Shah Ruck Khan gave some stupid statement?
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  #3  
Old November 1st, 2010, 01:08 PM
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Re: Is India a ‘Hindu’ State?

Haven't read the blog... will read in leisure...nowadays many kashmiri people are gettig famous in blogosphere... maybe deservedly so... one thing what I want to bring ito perspective is that religion and culture are always intermingled...fortunately or unfortunately, indian culture has been influenced majorly by hinduism and along with that all other religions in India have also been influenced by hinduism.
Hinduism is not a monolith... A hindu from Kerala is more of a keralite and has more in common with muslims and christians of kerala than with a hindu of jharkhand.

will vomit more on this later... but my guess is that as usual the blogger has misread the situation.

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Old November 1st, 2010, 01:14 PM
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Re: Is India a ‘Hindu’ State?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chitrala View Post
Haven't read the blog... will read in leisure...nowadays many kashmiri people are gettig famous in blogosphere... maybe deservedly so... one thing what I want to bring ito perspective is that religion and culture are always intermingled...fortunately or unfortunately, indian culture has been influenced majorly by hinduism and along with that all other religions in India have also been influenced by hinduism.
Hinduism is not a monolith... A hindu from Kerala is more of a keralite and has more in common with muslims and christians of kerala than with a hindu of jharkhand.

will vomit more on this later... but my guess is that as usual the blogger has misread the situation.

Jai Arundhati mata ki!
I also think that the blogger has not got the facts right. He went on to say that Nehru was responsible for partition because he does not want to part with power (a reason but not the main one) but evaded saying that, by 1930's neither Gandhi nor Nehru had any choice but to give in to Jinnah. Jinnah was already way too popular.
Isnt it their stupidity that secularism would work the charm which led to partition in the first place? The blog seems to be politically correct and that's that, nothing more.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 01:18 PM
Arbaaz Balushi Arbaaz Balushi is offline
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Re: Is India a ‘Hindu’ State?

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Originally Posted by Rakhi View Post
OK...what is your point here? Are you saying that India is not a Hindu state because Shah Ruck Khan gave some stupid statement?
No. I am saying hindus don't have it to make a state religion; but I am not saying in comparision to any other religion.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 01:20 PM
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Re: Is India a ‘Hindu’ State?

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Originally Posted by Arbaaz Balushi View Post
No. I am saying hindus don't have it to make a state religion; but I am not saying in comparision to any other religion.
But India is already a Hindu state to begin with; so Hindus making it a 'Hindu State/religion state' seems irrelevant.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 01:44 PM
Arbaaz Balushi Arbaaz Balushi is offline
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Re: Is India a ‘Hindu’ State?

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Originally Posted by Rakhi View Post
But India is already a Hindu state to begin with; so Hindus making it a 'Hindu State/religion state' seems irrelevant.
If its a hindu state why an average non-veg fierce hindu feel proud of balasaheb for killing 2500 muslim? Apne ghar mein tou kutta bhi sher hota hai. Don't feel offended, the emphasise is on balasaheb and sher.

Why a hindu feels elated when I say its rediculous to ask for lord ram's birth certificate; when we all know, in india a tenner and a paan can get birth certificates for all the ten avtaars of vishnu?

So i say, hindus don't have it what it takes to make hinduism a state religion.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 02:10 PM
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Re: Is India a ‘Hindu’ State?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbaaz Balushi View Post
If its a hindu state why an average non-veg fierce hindu feel proud of balasaheb for killing 2500 muslim? Apne ghar mein tou kutta bhi sher hota hai. Don't feel offended, the emphasise is on balasaheb and sher.

Why a hindu feels elated when I say its rediculous to ask for lord ram's birth certificate; when we all know, in india a tenner and a paan can get birth certificates for all the ten avtaars of vishnu?

So i say, hindus don't have it what it takes to make hinduism a state religion.
Arbaaz bhai .. you are losing me here with your logic (OLT).

When did balasaheb kill 2500 muslims? Mussalman hai ya machchar?

Who feels elated by your not asking for birth ceritificate? Who feels elated by anything you have or possibly could say? Please look up dictionary for meaning of elation!

Why should hindus or anyone else make Hinduism a state religion?? Why does a multicultural, multi faceted society like India need a state religion?? Its not a question of having what it takes .. its a question of who cares? Its a de facto religion, just as Christianity is in the US. I put a different spin on it - Hindus are not so insecure in their country or religion that they need to make Hinduism a state religion. Maybe that time will come, but its not there yet.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 02:22 PM
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Re: Is India a ‘Hindu’ State?

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Originally Posted by Arbaaz Balushi View Post
So i say, hindus don't have it what it takes to make hinduism a state religion.
Yet another stupid weak hindu argument...You forgot Nepal... for may years it was officially a hindu state... And what makes you think that Hindus want India to be a hindu state.... Look at all the religious states and the state which they are in... esp Pakistan... it is much better to remain a non-hindu India than to become a hindu Pakistan.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 05:44 PM
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Re: Is India a ‘Hindu’ State?

When was India ever a Hindu state?
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Old November 1st, 2010, 07:08 PM
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Re: Is India a ‘Hindu’ State?

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Originally Posted by Arbaaz Balushi View Post
If its a hindu state why an average non-veg fierce hindu feel proud of balasaheb for killing 2500 muslim?
thats because hindus have been raped by the muslims for centuries.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 07:50 PM
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Re: Is India a ‘Hindu’ State?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbaaz Balushi View Post
If its a hindu state why an average non-veg fierce hindu feel proud of balasaheb for killing 2500 muslim? Apne ghar mein tou kutta bhi sher hota hai. Don't feel offended, the emphasise is on balasaheb and sher.

Why a hindu feels elated when I say its rediculous to ask for lord ram's birth certificate; when we all know, in india a tenner and a paan can get birth certificates for all the ten avtaars of vishnu?

So i say, hindus don't have it what it takes to make hinduism a state religion.
tera logic sense din-duna-raat-chauguna badh raha hai. u have established a connection between ridiculousness in asking for birth certificate of someone from a time when certificates did not exist AND present state of affairs in issuing a certificate
ps-mosquito thread mein katne ke baad u went quiet as usual
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Old November 1st, 2010, 08:17 PM
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Re: Is India a ‘Hindu’ State?

read the blog and most of it is either bullshit or misinformed.
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 10:11 AM
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Re: Is India a ‘Hindu’ State?

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Originally Posted by Rakhi View Post
But India is already a Hindu state to begin with; so Hindus making it a 'Hindu State/religion state' seems irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbaaz Balushi View Post
...

So i say, hindus don't have it what it takes to make hinduism a state religion.
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Originally Posted by tantric_yogi View Post
When was India ever a Hindu state?
Exactly... main bhi toh yehi sochoon... when exactly was India a state . I always thought of India as a country... made up of many states. It was never a state
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 11:11 AM
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Re: Is India a ‘Hindu’ State?

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Originally Posted by Arbaaz Balushi View Post

So i say, hindus don't have it what it takes to make hinduism a state religion.
If Hindus make it, most mozies in india wont be alive to tell their tale of horror stories.....the ratio is still 7:3 eh....!!! till then bank on stupid logix...
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