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  #1  
Old August 3rd, 2004, 01:21 PM
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Mapping the Physical and Mental Universes

If the manual of life is encoded in our DNA, where do we look to find the blueprint of consciousness? This was a subject that fascinated Francis Crick, who, along with James Watson, discovered the double-helix structure of DNA 50 years ago.

Engrossed in the mysterious relationship between mind and body, Crick later felt impelled to turn his attention from matter to mind and from biology to philosophy but he persisted in believing that one day, consciousness could be explained in biological terms, using the tools of neuroscience.

The human genome map reveals to us that we're made up of some 40,000-odd genes, each of which carries inherited information. So, say some, we're the sum of our genes. It seems, however, that we could well be that and more a combination of nature and nurture, matter and mind.

But what is the mind, besides the countless neuron cells that transmit nerve impulses through the complicated nervous system? And neurons are not confined to the brain their reach extends to even the stomach and intestines.

So Crick would often pose an intriguing question: "When you digest your lunch, is that you? Crick questioned the hypothesis that there was a line dividing the functioning of the body and mind he preferred to approach the question of consciousness through neurobiology.

Consciousness and awareness are essentially local phenomenon, generated by activated neurons, said Crick. He did concede, however, that with our present (limited) understanding of neural correlates, it would be impossible to prove it scientifically.

Crick also admitted that it would be difficult to explain to others the nature of any conscious experience, without talking about it in relation to other such experiences. But since consciousness is subjective, science alone which is objective cannot fully explain the inner life of the mind.

This is the information age, thanks to the giant leaps we've made in computer chip technology. David Chalmers, of the department of philosophy, University of Arizona, raises a complex futuristic question: If the precise interactions between our neurons could be duplicated with silicon chips, would it give rise to the same conscious experience? Can consciousness arise in a complex, synthetic system? In other words, can consciousness some day be achieved in machines?

"Consider a silicon-based system in which the chips are organised and function in the same way as the neurons in your brain. That is, each chip in the silicon system does exactly what its natural analogue does and is interconnected to surrounding elements in precisely the same way. Thus, the behaviour exhibited by the artificial system will be exactly the same as yours. The crucial question is: Will it be conscious in the same way that you are?" asks Prof Chalmers.

The synapse does not explain everything. Whether artificial intelligence can evolve to the extent of human consciousness or not, the fact remains that the many conflicting theories of the universe are not confined to the physical: We live in individual universes of the mind, too. If retraction or reversal of cosmological principles Stephen Hawking recently revised his theory of black holes are acceptable in the objective realm of science, so too should it be in the subjective mental universe.

If our perceptions of the subjective and objective universes are in a state of constant flux, it follows that theories of everything that seek to explain the A to Z in either domain will necessarily be in a state of constant evolution. And so we, too, will constantly be in search of an elusive truth...
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  #2  
Old August 3rd, 2004, 02:26 PM
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I think our consciousness lies somewhere in the brain not yet identified by biology. However, some experiements show that when a person gets angry or happy then some areas in the frontal lobe change their chemistry as seen in MRI scans.
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Old August 3rd, 2004, 05:30 PM
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well..tha day human is able to make sumin lyke brain,thaz tha day he'll become a God..and God wont let that happen..iz mah humble opinion

serisouly,i dont think humanz will be able to replicate an organ lyke our brain..juz imagine man,our brain switchez from 1 thought ta another in less than tha smallest division of a second i know..


itz similar ta askin -> will chips be able to dream in tha future??

no..is mah anz..
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Old August 3rd, 2004, 05:34 PM
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fukkin thiz remindz me of 1 of them conversations mah IIT palz had a coupla yrz ago..as far as i rememba,they were talkin bout sumin related to theory or relativity (?) that suggested that tyme travel wuz possible..ne1 kno nething bout thiz??
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sometimes I sit and look at life from a different angle,dunno if I m God's child or Satan's angel
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Old August 3rd, 2004, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DesiBaba
well..tha day human is able to make sumin lyke brain,thaz tha day he'll become a God..and God wont let that happen..iz mah humble opinion

serisouly,i dont think humanz will be able to replicate an organ lyke our brain..juz imagine man,our brain switchez from 1 thought ta another in less than tha smallest division of a second i know..


itz similar ta askin -> will chips be able to dream in tha future??

no..is mah anz..
Strongly agree with you DB-paaji ... Its something like Robots having emotions as was shown in I-Robot ...
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Old August 4th, 2004, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by landyaBhai
Strongly agree with you DB-paaji ... Its something like Robots having emotions as was shown in I-Robot ...
I would definitely agree too..but then these quotes came to my mind...this is how things were about 50 years or so ago...but now they seem to absurd

"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949.


"I think there is a world market for may be five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.

"I have traveled the length and breadth of this country and talked with the best people, and I can assure you that data processing is a fad that won't last out the year."
The editor in charge of business books for Prentice Hall, 1957.

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977.

"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
Bill Gates, 1981.



Who knows...it just might come true...scientists are able to id the gene responsible for that as well....
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Old August 4th, 2004, 02:49 AM
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can't beleive that some billion lines of code would be enough to express simple mental feelings ...

Need to keep our fingers crossed as to who will take the lead in such a massive breakthrough ...

dawizard, what will happen if Microsoft licenses this technology in the near future
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Old August 4th, 2004, 03:40 AM
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Angry Re: Mapping the Physical and Mental Universes

Quote:
Originally posted by landyaBhai
If the manual of life is encoded in our DNA, where do we look to find the blueprint of consciousness? This was a subject that fascinated Francis Crick, who, along with James Watson, discovered the double-helix structure of DNA 50 years ago.

Engrossed in the mysterious relationship between mind and body, Crick later felt impelled to turn his attention from matter to mind and from biology to philosophy but he persisted in believing that one day, consciousness could be explained in biological terms, using the tools of neuroscience.

The human genome map reveals to us that we're made up of some 40,000-odd genes, each of which carries inherited information. So, say some, we're the sum of our genes. It seems, however, that we could well be that and more a combination of nature and nurture, matter and mind.

But what is the mind, besides the countless neuron cells that transmit nerve impulses through the complicated nervous system? And neurons are not confined to the brain their reach extends to even the stomach and intestines.

So Crick would often pose an intriguing question: "When you digest your lunch, is that you? Crick questioned the hypothesis that there was a line dividing the functioning of the body and mind he preferred to approach the question of consciousness through neurobiology.

Consciousness and awareness are essentially local phenomenon, generated by activated neurons, said Crick. He did concede, however, that with our present (limited) understanding of neural correlates, it would be impossible to prove it scientifically.

Crick also admitted that it would be difficult to explain to others the nature of any conscious experience, without talking about it in relation to other such experiences. But since consciousness is subjective, science alone which is objective cannot fully explain the inner life of the mind.

This is the information age, thanks to the giant leaps we've made in computer chip technology. David Chalmers, of the department of philosophy, University of Arizona, raises a complex futuristic question: If the precise interactions between our neurons could be duplicated with silicon chips, would it give rise to the same conscious experience? Can consciousness arise in a complex, synthetic system? In other words, can consciousness some day be achieved in machines?

"Consider a silicon-based system in which the chips are organised and function in the same way as the neurons in your brain. That is, each chip in the silicon system does exactly what its natural analogue does and is interconnected to surrounding elements in precisely the same way. Thus, the behaviour exhibited by the artificial system will be exactly the same as yours. The crucial question is: Will it be conscious in the same way that you are?" asks Prof Chalmers.

The synapse does not explain everything. Whether artificial intelligence can evolve to the extent of human consciousness or not, the fact remains that the many conflicting theories of the universe are not confined to the physical: We live in individual universes of the mind, too. If retraction or reversal of cosmological principles Stephen Hawking recently revised his theory of black holes are acceptable in the objective realm of science, so too should it be in the subjective mental universe.

If our perceptions of the subjective and objective universes are in a state of constant flux, it follows that theories of everything that seek to explain the A to Z in either domain will necessarily be in a state of constant evolution. And so we, too, will constantly be in search of an elusive truth...

Behan kay land Landyaa , parson kay TOI kaa Speaking tree kaa article indirect speech may likh kay ghanaa aplaatoon bunanN kee kosis naa karay .

TainNay Umrikaa may jo article kal paRhyaa sae vaa mai subahii chaar bazay tatti may paRh chukaa hun.

Kub say dekh rahaa hun yoh dheechodh kaa dhaanpne may hee laag raa sae hore saare baawle yahaan inNay reply karan may ustaadi deekhaanN laag rae sae

DHaanpnaa hai toph dhaanp pur link day , credit mat lay nakal kaa .
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  #9  
Old August 4th, 2004, 06:06 AM
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Angry Re: Mapping the Physical and Mental Universes

Quote:
Originally posted by landyaBhai
If the manual of life is encoded in our DNA, where do we look to find the blueprint of consciousness? This was a subject that fascinated Francis Crick, who, along with James Watson, discovered the double-helix structure of DNA 50 years ago.

Engrossed in the mysterious relationship between mind and body, Crick later felt impelled to turn his attention from matter to mind and from biology to philosophy but he persisted in believing that one day, consciousness could be explained in biological terms, using the tools of neuroscience.

The human genome map reveals to us that we're made up of some 40,000-odd genes, each of which carries inherited information. So, say some, we're the sum of our genes. It seems, however, that we could well be that and more a combination of nature and nurture, matter and mind.

But what is the mind, besides the countless neuron cells that transmit nerve impulses through the complicated nervous system? And neurons are not confined to the brain their reach extends to even the stomach and intestines.

So Crick would often pose an intriguing question: "When you digest your lunch, is that you? Crick questioned the hypothesis that there was a line dividing the functioning of the body and mind he preferred to approach the question of consciousness through neurobiology.

Consciousness and awareness are essentially local phenomenon, generated by activated neurons, said Crick. He did concede, however, that with our present (limited) understanding of neural correlates, it would be impossible to prove it scientifically.

Crick also admitted that it would be difficult to explain to others the nature of any conscious experience, without talking about it in relation to other such experiences. But since consciousness is subjective, science alone which is objective cannot fully explain the inner life of the mind.

This is the information age, thanks to the giant leaps we've made in computer chip technology. David Chalmers, of the department of philosophy, University of Arizona, raises a complex futuristic question: If the precise interactions between our neurons could be duplicated with silicon chips, would it give rise to the same conscious experience? Can consciousness arise in a complex, synthetic system? In other words, can consciousness some day be achieved in machines?

"Consider a silicon-based system in which the chips are organised and function in the same way as the neurons in your brain. That is, each chip in the silicon system does exactly what its natural analogue does and is interconnected to surrounding elements in precisely the same way. Thus, the behaviour exhibited by the artificial system will be exactly the same as yours. The crucial question is: Will it be conscious in the same way that you are?" asks Prof Chalmers.

The synapse does not explain everything. Whether artificial intelligence can evolve to the extent of human consciousness or not, the fact remains that the many conflicting theories of the universe are not confined to the physical: We live in individual universes of the mind, too. If retraction or reversal of cosmological principles Stephen Hawking recently revised his theory of black holes are acceptable in the objective realm of science, so too should it be in the subjective mental universe.

If our perceptions of the subjective and objective universes are in a state of constant flux, it follows that theories of everything that seek to explain the A to Z in either domain will necessarily be in a state of constant evolution. And so we, too, will constantly be in search of an elusive truth...

Behan kay land Landyaa , parson kay TOI kaa Speaking tree kaa article indirect speech may likh kay ghanaa aplaatoon bunanN kee kosis naa karay .

TainNay Umrikaa may jo article kal paRhyaa sae vaa mai subahii chaar bazay tatti may paRh chukaa hun.

Kub say dekh rahaa hun yoh dheechodh kaa dhaanpne may hee laag raa sae hore saare baawle yahaan inNay reply karan may ustaadi deekhaanN laag rae sae

DHaanpnaa hai toph dhaanp pur link day , credit mat lay nakal kaa .
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Old August 4th, 2004, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by landyaBhai
can't beleive that some billion lines of code would be enough to express simple mental feelings ...

Need to keep our fingers crossed as to who will take the lead in such a massive breakthrough ...

dawizard, what will happen if Microsoft licenses this technology in the near future
Oh gawd...monopoly in this technology also...we'll end up paying for certified copies of brains, but then don't worry pirated versions will come out soon!
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Old August 4th, 2004, 12:03 PM
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Re: Re: Mapping the Physical and Mental Universes

Quote:
Originally posted by zyzzva
Behan kay land Landyaa , parson kay TOI kaa Speaking tree kaa article indirect speech may likh kay ghanaa aplaatoon bunanN kee kosis naa karay .

TainNay Umrikaa may jo article kal paRhyaa sae vaa mai subahii chaar bazay tatti may paRh chukaa hun.

Kub say dekh rahaa hun yoh dheechodh kaa dhaanpne may hee laag raa sae hore saare baawle yahaan inNay reply karan may ustaadi deekhaanN laag rae sae

DHaanpnaa hai toph dhaanp pur link day , credit mat lay nakal kaa .
kya hua yaar ... tujhe kya lagta hai LINK provide karta toh tera BP kam hota kya ... mein yaha originality prove karney nahi aaya ... nor I have claimed that this is my article written by me ... apun bhi research kar relaa hai aur apun ko patah hai citations dena jaroori hota hai ... but then I did not feel that I should give it here ...

Gaali Glaawoj sey achha yeh hota ki tu apney kuch valuable comments deta ...

if anybody cares, here is the citation:

------------------------------

Indiatimes>Spirituality >The Speaking Tree >Mind, Body and Soul

Link: http://spirituality.indiatimes.com/a...how/800900.cms

--------------------------------

chal LIGHT ley
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Last edited by landyaBhai; August 4th, 2004 at 12:06 PM.
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Old August 10th, 2004, 08:06 AM
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YAar is topic may mai hore baaki saare rangroot itni daphay bhaunk chukay hainge pichle chaar saalon say kee ab jub bhee yoh tope-ic aavay hai toh mhaara bhaunkne kaa naa kaatne kaa jee karay haiga.

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Vaise Apnaa Pelu bhee kai baar bhaunk chukaa hai is topic pay lekin apun kee tarah abhi voh bhaunk bhaunk kay thakaa nahin hai isliye abhi usne kaatnaa shuru nahin kiyaa hai .

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Old August 12th, 2004, 05:13 PM
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Re: Mapping the Physical and Mental Universes

Quote:
Originally posted by landyaBhai
If the manual of life is encoded in our DNA, where do we look to find the blueprint of consciousness? This was a subject that fascinated Francis Crick, who, along with James Watson, discovered the double-helix structure of DNA 50 years ago.

Engrossed in the mysterious relationship between mind and body, Crick later felt impelled to turn his attention from matter to mind and from biology to philosophy but he persisted in believing that one day, consciousness could be explained in biological terms, using the tools of neuroscience.

The human genome map reveals to us that we're made up of some 40,000-odd genes, each of which carries inherited information. So, say some, we're the sum of our genes. It seems, however, that we could well be that and more a combination of nature and nurture, matter and mind.

But what is the mind, besides the countless neuron cells that transmit nerve impulses through the complicated nervous system? And neurons are not confined to the brain their reach extends to even the stomach and intestines.

So Crick would often pose an intriguing question: "When you digest your lunch, is that you? Crick questioned the hypothesis that there was a line dividing the functioning of the body and mind he preferred to approach the question of consciousness through neurobiology.

Consciousness and awareness are essentially local phenomenon, generated by activated neurons, said Crick. He did concede, however, that with our present (limited) understanding of neural correlates, it would be impossible to prove it scientifically.

Crick also admitted that it would be difficult to explain to others the nature of any conscious experience, without talking about it in relation to other such experiences. But since consciousness is subjective, science alone which is objective cannot fully explain the inner life of the mind.

This is the information age, thanks to the giant leaps we've made in computer chip technology. David Chalmers, of the department of philosophy, University of Arizona, raises a complex futuristic question: If the precise interactions between our neurons could be duplicated with silicon chips, would it give rise to the same conscious experience? Can consciousness arise in a complex, synthetic system? In other words, can consciousness some day be achieved in machines?

"Consider a silicon-based system in which the chips are organised and function in the same way as the neurons in your brain. That is, each chip in the silicon system does exactly what its natural analogue does and is interconnected to surrounding elements in precisely the same way. Thus, the behaviour exhibited by the artificial system will be exactly the same as yours. The crucial question is: Will it be conscious in the same way that you are?" asks Prof Chalmers.

The synapse does not explain everything. Whether artificial intelligence can evolve to the extent of human consciousness or not, the fact remains that the many conflicting theories of the universe are not confined to the physical: We live in individual universes of the mind, too. If retraction or reversal of cosmological principles Stephen Hawking recently revised his theory of black holes are acceptable in the objective realm of science, so too should it be in the subjective mental universe.

If our perceptions of the subjective and objective universes are in a state of constant flux, it follows that theories of everything that seek to explain the A to Z in either domain will necessarily be in a state of constant evolution. And so we, too, will constantly be in search of an elusive truth...
CRAP ... I think.

There will have to be a revolution in technology (as it exists today) to make a micro chip be aware of own existence ... today these pieces of metal cannot even comprehend what a day old baby is born with ... self awareness. To be aware of life ... intuitive recognition of life. Te be conscious of consciousness! Substance + Cause + Essence = Consciousness or Perception of Awareness.

See?

No. NOT POSSIBLE.
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Old August 12th, 2004, 05:46 PM
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I appreciate the human brain,which in turn is trying to analyze what its is all about.......amazing...... a do loop.
let see this space for some interesting developments.

(I am thinking of erasing all genes which leads to kufr )
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Old August 12th, 2004, 11:41 PM
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Our consciousness supposedly gives us our individuality. This is supposedly manifest in the way we 'respond' to 'situations'. Couldn't this be a result of the electro-chemical reactions the 'event' generates in us? A corollary would be that as the 'similarity' bet. indivisuals increases, their 'responses' approximate towards sameness. In identical twins, this phenomenon is greatly noticeable. Of course, the presence of thousands of genes, and an ununiform physico(mostly electro)-chemical environment means that the possibility of the very exact reaction getting triggered by an external stimulus is virtually impossible-- so, this concept of consciousness (in practice,indivisuality) gains further credence.
In 'lower' life forms, where ,usually due to their smaller gene-pool,such uniformity in their '(electro-)chemical makeup' especially thru cloning, is possible, we are fairly successful in predicting their responses. We,in fact have learnt to commercially exploit this phenomenon-- for producing antibiotics,saplings,cheeses,honey etc..
Who knows, a million years from now, man will have mastered the sciences to make exact replicas(which will exhibit exactly same (similar) responses to given stimulii) of pets,domestics etc.., and ,perhaps a few million years later, people with exactly predefined qualities,traits for specific purposes will be 'manufactured'.i.e.,today we nurture 'talent', while in the future,'talent' will be an ubiquitious and easily reproducible 'property'.
Ironically, this will be 'super casteism', and man ,when he would talk of consciousness, would, in reality be talking of 'a collective consciousness'.
How boring!!
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