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Old August 9th, 2002, 01:03 PM
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Thumbs down Yeah right - We obey all immigration rules and Mexicans get a free ride!!

Folks,

All of us came here on H1 visa or came as students. We all had legal papers and we lie here paying respect and following the INS rules.

I would say that majority of the Indian population here is on legal visas and have waited long years to get a green card. We do it all by the book.

WE also contribute to the national exchequer by way of taxes and social security contributions.

Now these illegal aliens from Mexico get a free ride. And top add insult to injury to all of us who follow legal visa procedures, the city of San Jose is now being criticised for not accepting Mexican Consulate cards as forms of identity for these illegal aliens, so that these illegal aliens can 'access some county services'.

This is really frustrating. Like most of us, I have waited so long in the immigration queue for my Green Card. And yet these illegal aliens get sympathy and recognition.

Read the full story here --

S.J. slow to embrace Mexican IDs
SYMBOLIC MEASURE: SOME LATINOS SAY LACK OF POLICY SENDS OUT MESSAGE THAT IMMIGRANTS ARE UNWELCOME

By Edwin Garcia
Mercury News

When Santa Clara County supervisors this week voted to allow thousands of undocumented immigrants to access some county services by honoring Mexican consulate-issued ID cards, they followed the lead of a number of local governments and businesses nationwide.

San Francisco, Oakland, Santa Cruz and Los Angeles have all adopted the policy. But one Bay Area city is noticeably absent: San Jose, home to Northern California's largest population of Mexican nationals and Mexican-Americans.

The city council's reluctance has stunned many local Latinos, although San Jose leaders deny the city is against setting a policy.

Critics say San Jose's apparent lack of support is the latest example of how the city that prides itself on its diversity and tolerance is earning a reputation for being unfriendly to immigrants.

``It's a paradox,'' said Marco Alcazar, general consul of Mexico in San Jose. ``The symbolism that could be represented through formal adoption by a decision of the city council would be encouraging for the Mexican community.''

Some council members say San Jose doesn't need to propose a resolution in support of the cards because city departments already have the discretion to honor them on their own. Police Chief William Lansdowne issued a memo to the council in December saying the department would accept the cards as a form of identification, after learning of their importance to undocumented immigrants.

David Vossbrink, spokesman for Mayor Ron Gonzales, disputes the claim that San Jose is unwelcoming to immigrants. Although he acknowledges the symbolic importance of a resolution, he said the police department's policy demonstrates the city's commitment to immigrants.

``As soon as we knew there was something we could do to be helpful, we took action,'' Councilwoman Cindy Chavez said, referring to the police department's support. Chavez, who represents downtown neighborhoods, and Councilwoman Nora Campos, who represents part of the East Side, said they haven't heard from a single resident asking for a resolution

Access, protection

The cards, known as matriculas consulares, are hugely popular because they allow people without another valid ID to more easily access services and benefits, such as obtaining library cards and opening bank accounts. The cards also have been important when dealing with police, especially after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

Aside from their practical purposes, the cards give immigrants a sense of security, symbolic acknowledgment that city leaders recognize the tens of thousands of undocumented immigrants who work, shop and pay taxes in the city.

San Jose's silence on the issue speaks volumes, some residents say.

``People tell me all the time that Ron Gonzales and the entire council are seen as anti-immigrant,'' said Jose Sandoval, San Jose coordinator for Voluntarios de la Comunidad, a grass-roots group with 300 members that frequently leads marches in favor of immigrant rights.

Sandoval and others point to a string of incidents in recent years in which the priorities of city leaders and those of Latino immigrants have clashed:

The city plans to forge ahead with a proposal to redevelop East San Jose's Tropicana shopping center, despite vigorous opposition from Latino merchants, particularly those who are immigrants.

• Gonzales has declined to join other Latino politicians statewide in endorsing a proposed state law to allow undocumented immigrants to apply for driver's licenses.

• The city has failed to reverse a policy that prevents push-cart ice cream vendors from obtaining seller's permits unless the applicants are permanent residents or U.S. citizens. Other cities in the Bay Area don't have such policies.

A growing number of residents say San Jose's record shows its council members are out of touch with immigrants.

``A lot of our people don't view them as our leaders because their vote is not with the immigrants; their vote is not with the Latino community,'' said Alberto Carrillo, a local spokesman for the League of United Latin American Citizens, a national advocacy group.

Chavez calls the criticism unfair. She said the city constantly attends to immigrants' needs in many areas, including affordable housing, improving libraries and building parks.

``You can't look at this council and not recognize we care about all of our community,'' she said.

Some political observers and cultural experts say the San Jose City Council's three Latino politicians are in a tough spot. Latino immigrants often don't approach their council members to make their concerns known, experts say. And while Gonzales, Campos and Chavez need to represent all of their constituents, many Latino immigrants expect city leaders to consistently stand up for immigrant causes simply because they're Latino.

``It seems natural to me that they would expect more responsiveness, because of a basic affinity, a basic identification,'' said Felipe Korzenny, an expert on Latino culture and a principal of Cheskin, a Redwood Shores marketing firm.

Some residents believe city council members refuse to propose a matricula policy because they don't want to appear in support of illegal immigration.

No clout

Fernando Zazueta, an attorney and Latino activist of more than 25 years in San Jose, takes the argument a step further: He says politicians won't stick their necks out for people who can't vote.

``And if they cannot vote, there is nothing gained by the elected officials' support,'' he said.

The mayor's spokesman declined to comment on the perception that the city council refuses to take positions on issues related to illegal immigrants. He said Gonzales has been an advocate for issues immigrants and other residents care about.

``We make sure our communities are strong, safe and healthy -- and that benefits residents who are here legally or illegally, citizens or non-citizens,'' Vossbrink said.

Latino advocates still hope that San Jose will follow in the county's footsteps.

Former council member Blanca Alvarado, who proposed the county's policy, gave Campos a packet of information in June about the matricula issue. Assemblyman Manny Diaz, also a former council member, has prepared a proposal to encourage all of California's cities and counties to do adopt resolutions in support of matriculas.

``They have the right to not recognize us,'' said Martha Campos, a volunteer with Comité César Chávez, a grass-roots immigrant rights group. ``And we also have the right to tell them that we're here.''

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/3829926.htm
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Old August 9th, 2002, 01:05 PM
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hmmmm.
sound familiar.
Yes. Yeh hain India.
US en-route to become another India?
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Old August 9th, 2002, 01:10 PM
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And look athe cheek of the newspaper

It does not say ILLEGAL ALIENS or ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!

It calls them - UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS!!!

Bloody the H1 visa says - Non-Immigrant Worker

And these folks get a status of IMMIGRANT and just a inconvenient adjective Undocumented!!

The story says these Undocumented Immigrants 'work, shop and pay city taxes'

Now how come they pay taxes??? Do they get payroll stubs with deductions for Social Security, Federal and State Income Taxes, etc??

Yaar... This political correctness bug is what has caused so much problems in US.

I think the new rules are that - Break the law, Jump the border and enjoy all benefits!!! If you are a legal alien then wait in LONG queues and be at the mercy of the INS!
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Old August 9th, 2002, 01:18 PM
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Unhappy Re: And look athe cheek of the newspaper

Quote:
Originally posted by echarcha
I think the new rules are that - Break the law, Jump the border and enjoy all benefits!!! If you are a legal alien then wait in LONG queues and be at the mercy of the INS!
u got the GC cha pai, think abt those, and whose hanging between job and layoffs, Here in real scenario if you look, one legal H-1B software pro pays 7 times of tax then those illegal one (they pay either least or not at all), but if you look in the papers, if someone enter the country or become illegal on April 2001, he'll get his GC in same time with those legal whose paying 7 times tax and soc.sec to american system.

Even if you go some top class immigratin attorny the first thing he says that, if you want to have GC faster become illegal, that sux man
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Old August 9th, 2002, 01:36 PM
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Honestly man

I really hate this... This is totally screwed up..

I believed that America was fair to all.. BUt hey.. we work to make the wheels of High tech turn and what do we get?? Long waits at the INS and what do these border jumpers get?? Instant GC and a nice sounding status "Undocumented immigrant"

So unfair..

I think America is also like India.. All courrupt and doubel standards when it comes to government policies!
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Old August 9th, 2002, 01:59 PM
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The reason is very simple.. the makki guys come here and do the lowly jobs for a low rate. That keeps the small business happy. H1 etc are specialization professions so when a flood of H1 holders arrived, the USA folks are up in arms that they are not getting jobs. Be it the dems or the republicans the lobbies are always usually "business funded". These small time companies (be it laundromats/fuelpumps/pizza joints and such) have their own unions that represent them. There is no such thing for H1 workers. Heck two folks holding H1 sometime do not even speak to each other..So well the crying child is getting the milk.. the ones that quitely stay and pay their dues and are refused GC in some pretext or the other (be it delay or a refusal of 140 on various grounds) have no where to turn to but to AIR INDIA for a ticket back after selling their belongings at throwaway prices.. paradox it certainly is.

Certainly unfair but then all lobby based/vote bank based policies are always unfair to one group or another.
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Old August 9th, 2002, 03:28 PM
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These things

make me tend to agree with radio talk show host Michael Savage who is against illegal immigration and uncontrolled influx of immigrants.

http://www.michaelsavage.com/

Most Mexicans in California seem to be illegal aliens and to top it all, they have forms in the DMV, etc. in Spanish. What about us Indian immigrants who PAY taxes? Why not forms for us in Hindi??

We take the pains to study and speak English. We come here legally and then pay taxes. Then we se ethis favoritism and showering of concessions to illegal aliens!
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Old August 9th, 2002, 03:32 PM
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Mexicans are to US what Bangladeshis are to India so there are special rules for them. Nothing wrong with it. India and other nations are not next to US like Mexico is and so can not be compared to it.

Mexicans should have special laws, it is absolutely fair. It should be easier for them to come to US compared to others.
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Old August 9th, 2002, 03:33 PM
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Yeah right!!

Quote:
Originally posted by tinda
Mexicans are to US what Bangladeshis are to India so there are special rules for them. Nothing wrong with it. India and other nations are not next to US like Mexico is and so can not be compared to it.

Mexicans should have special laws, it is absolutely fair. It should be easier for them to come to US compared to others.
I hope you say it in sarcasm..

Come to California and see..

Mexicans get away with immigration. Go to any hospital and you will see most of them getting free care under 'humanitarian grounds' even if they dont have medical insurance.

Yeah right.. we pay taxes, we pay medical insurance and someone else gets the goodies!
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Old August 9th, 2002, 03:37 PM
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No sarcasm and I know bay area very well. Because of their geographical proximity Mexicans will need special handling. It is common all over the world.

Nepalis have special rules in India, Iraqis don't. Same goes for US.
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Old August 9th, 2002, 04:17 PM
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Jeeez

Quote:
Originally posted by tinda
No sarcasm and I know bay area very well. Because of their geographical proximity Mexicans will need special handling. It is common all over the world.

Nepalis have special rules in India, Iraqis don't. Same goes for US.
One more bleeding heart Liberal....

If you have to stand in a huge line for green card and other immigration benefits... let me know how you feel when you see illegals getting away with it... Yeah Mexicans are in USA doing jobs but dont equate Iraq when you say that we Indians or others dont deserve special handling as compared to Mexicans

Anyway.. who cares.... I would advise folks to jump across the border and come over to USA instead of standing in line for visas and paying taxes!
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Old August 9th, 2002, 04:34 PM
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Citizens from neighbouring countries can't be equated with rest of the world for any country. Special rules are needed for them. Same in India, Same In UK, and Same in US.
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Old August 10th, 2002, 01:59 PM
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it is certainly unfair.

All about politics .. In terms of policies US is no different in india .. In india u have the reservation policies for minorities etc. In US .. since latinos are now a large % of the population .. the politicians wanna their votes . . .

I have had the good fortune of not havin to come in student visa or stand in line for green card .. only time i have to go to embassy is to get Visitor Visa for India but from what I have been told Gettin Green Card in USA is certainly a long and painfool process.

when i was workin in new york flippin burgers some years back was workin with some south american people .. and damn .. they think US is made for them .. dont bother to learn english and love to misuse the system .. of course cannot say that all of them are like that bcoz this is only what they told me .. mebbe things different now ..

anyways .. nothin one can do .. I hate livin in States .. Canada is good
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Old August 12th, 2002, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spock
it is certainly unfair.

I have had the good fortune of not havin to come in student visa or stand in line for green card .. only time i have to go to embassy is to get Visitor Visa for India but from what I have been told Gettin Green Card in USA is certainly a long and painfool process.

Ask me about it. It is a painful process where people who can most benefit the economy (employment based category) have to complete so many formalities and still wait in line like beggars.

Whereas folks who just jump the border or come in here and claim political asylum just get overall amnesty

I can understand political asylum to an extent but jumping over the border and getting a green card is the limit!

I saw a tee-shirt once on a Latino which read - "Dont blame us. The border came to us"

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Old August 12th, 2002, 01:14 PM
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US has the right to do what it thinks is in its good interest. Yes, it affects us, but there is haardly anything we can do about it.

We are not a poltical force in US. We as Indians are not vote banks. If we want some preivlages we have to fight for it.

I am sure mexicans have not got these on a platter. I am sure if your were to talk to a mexican, u will surly see a lot more pain he faces that we do.

I think we should be happy with what we have. and try to change the system to our advantage.
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