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View Poll Results: Missile capability -- India vs Pakistan: Who is superior?
India 3 50.00%
Pukiland 3 50.00%
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  #1  
Old October 22nd, 2006, 08:25 PM
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Missile capability -- India vs Pakistan: Who is superior?

Missile capability -- India vs Pakistan: Who is superior?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ooo
Pakistan is perceived to have acquired missile capability in the late 1980s. Three major factors — the easy availability of Chinese missiles and missile-related technologies, its inability to obtain the delivery of all its F-16 fighters from the US and the success of India's missile development programme — were to be the main reasons for Pakistan's missile acquisitions.

Following the latest tests, Pakistan's missile arsenal now consists of the Hatf — I, II ,III, IV, V,VI, and so on.

The Hatf-I is a single-stage solid propellant missile with a range of 60-80 km and a payload capacity of 500 kg. It was first flight-tested in 1989 and a larger 100 km range variant was most recently test-fired in early 2000.

It is believed to be in service in limited numbers.

The Haft-II, also known as Abdali, is a solid-propellant ballistic missile with a range of 180 km and a payload capacity of 500 kg. Abdali was first test-fired in February 1989 and, more recently, on May 28.

The Hatf-III, also known as the Ghaznavi, is a solid fuel short-range ballistic missile with a range of 290 km and a payload capacity of 500 kg. This missile, which closely resembles the Chinese M-11 missile, was for the first time test-fired on May 26. The Hatf-IV, also called Shaheen-I, has a range of 750 km and a payload capacity of 700 kg. This solid fuel missile, which is based on the Chinese M-9 missile design, was first flight-tested in April 1999. Shaheen-I is reportedly to have entered serial production in mid 1998.

Hatf-V, also named Ghauri, is a single-stage liquid fuel IRBM with a range of 1,500 km and a payload capacity of 700 kg. This missile was first test-fired in April 1998. There is another version, Ghauri-II, a liquid fuel, two- stage IRBM (intermediate range ballistic missile) with a claimed range of 2,300 km.

It was first flight-tested in April 1999. The Ghauris are believed to be derived from the North Korean Nodong missile.

A longer range, two-stage solid fuel missile Hatf-VI, also called Shaheen-II, was unveiled during the Pakitan Day Parade on March 23, 2000.

This missile, which is yet to be test-fired, is likely to have a range of 2,500 km with a 1,000 kg payload. Beside the Hatf series, longer range missiles — Tipu and Haider — have also been reported.





India began a comprehensive missile development programme, the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP), in 1983. With an initial budget of Rs 380 crore, the programme envisaged "to take up simultaneously the design and development of five missiles which would provide the nation a comprehensive missile-based Defence umbrella within ten years''.

The five missiles include the short-range surface-to-air missile Trishul; the surface-to-air missile, Akash; the smokeless high-energy anti-tank guided missile Nag; the surface-to-surface missile Prithvi, and the intermediate range missile Agni. Of these, only Prithvi and Agni are ballistic missiles.

Prithvi is a single stage, road mobile, liquid fuel battle-field support missile.

This 8.5 m short-range missile, costing Rs 5 crore a piece, was first test-fired in February 1988. Several variants of the missile have been developed.

Prithvi-I, or the Army version, has the maximum range of 150 km and a payload capacity of 1,000 kg. This missile has been produced and inducted into the Army.

Prithvi-II, or the Air-force version, has a range of 250 km with a warhead weight of 500-700 kg. The development work on this missile is complete. The Prithvi-III, for the Navy, and also called Dhanush, has a range of 350 km and a warhead weight of 1,000 kg. This missile is under development.

The intermediate range Agni is India's second ballistic missile. It is a two-stage IRBM 18.4 m long and 1.3 body diameter.........contd
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...0300460900.htm
..............
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Last edited by max de Indiana; October 22nd, 2006 at 08:29 PM.
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  #2  
Old October 23rd, 2006, 07:16 AM
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Re: Missile capability -- India vs Pakistan: Who is superior?

I would say Pukiland whether we like it or not.
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Old October 23rd, 2006, 01:16 PM
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Re: Missile capability -- India vs Pakistan: Who is superior?

Yep - but then again - Pukiland needs the long range missiles to hit all Indian targets from Pukiland. India doesnt - all target rich areas are within spitting distance from the border (maybe a jawan's grenade throwing distance ). And who the hell wants to bomb anything in Balochistan or NWFP?

Either way, we have enough range to hit anywhere in pakistan that we would want to - and they have the range to hit any Indian target. Ours just cost less
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Old October 23rd, 2006, 05:26 PM
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Re: Missile capability -- India vs Pakistan: Who is superior?

Quote:
Originally Posted by padhu
I would say Pukiland whether we like it or not.
& what ever they have....they got everything from china

so they have almost nothing there own..
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Old October 23rd, 2006, 05:28 PM
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Re: Missile capability -- India vs Pakistan: Who is superior?

Quote:
Originally Posted by max de Indiana
& what ever they have....they got everything from china

so they have almost nothing there own..
Now they own it Richard Head.......
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Old October 23rd, 2006, 05:46 PM
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Re: Missile capability -- India vs Pakistan: Who is superior?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty
Now they own it Richard Head.......
tu apana dhandha apani naachgaane tak seemit rakh...
jaa koi nayaa gaana puchh logon se yaad kar aur club mai jaakr thumkaa laga....thodaa dhandha paani hojaayega tera...idhar time waste mat kar

Last edited by max de Indiana; October 23rd, 2006 at 07:28 PM.
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  #7  
Old October 23rd, 2006, 07:02 PM
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Smile Re: Missile capability -- India vs Pakistan: Who is superior?

Quote:
Originally Posted by padhu
I would say Pukiland whether we like it or not.
We can concede to a certain extent that Pukis have superior missile capability than us, thanks to the f*cking Chinks and the 4-foot madman in NK!

But their delivery systems are weak. They only have land based launch facilities so far. Neither do they have air nor sea based launch capabilities. This is significant in case the land based launch facilities/silos are destroyed. Their best bet for air based stiking is F-16s which I believe are useless alone (remember they do not have BVR capability yet and are slated to get that only later than 2008, even after which it will take them a decade or so to develop tactics for and against BVR missiles!) unless accompanied by a lot of their F-16s. (the rest of PAF are junk Mirage-III ROSE a/cs). As for sea-based launch, I dont believe they have any such setup planned yet, forget about having it!

So, how do you view missile capability now, when you combine not just technology but also abilities to perform a successful stike?
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Last edited by rameshp; October 23rd, 2006 at 07:09 PM.
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Old October 23rd, 2006, 07:13 PM
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Smile Re: Missile capability -- India vs Pakistan: Who is superior?


Quote:
A Solution for Program Delays?

India Looks to MBDA To Help Speed Missiles Into Service

By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI, NEW DELHI
Posted 09/18/06 11:28

In a major breakthrough for India’s troubled missile programs, France has agreed to help India fine-tune its indigenous missiles and later will help local industry produce them for domestic use and export to friendly countries.

The framework agreement was worked out during Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee’s Sept. 3-5 visit.

Under a formal partnership pact to be signed in the next two months, European missile house MBDA will advise India’s state Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) on how to put some long-delayed missile programs into operational condition.

A senior Indian Defence Ministry official said the agreement between DRDO and MBDA was not signed during Mukherjee’s visit because the defense minister was irked by Paris’ decision to initiate a dialogue with Islamabad for the supply of Marlin submarines.

“This is the first time that the French government has permitted MBDA to have a pact with another country’s research agency to fine-tune its blocked defense projects,” said a diplomat with the French Embassy here.

“MBDA will evaluate DRDO’s major missile programs, including the anti-tank missile Nag, Akash air defense system and surface-to-air quick-reaction missile Trishul, which are currently not successful because of inaccurate rate of fire and problems in missile guidance systems,” the Indian Defence Ministry official said.

MBDA also will help DRDO develop error-free guiding systems for the air-to-air Astra missile and submarine-launched Sagarika cruise missile, both still under development; and provide technology transfer for seeker head systems for both systems.

The DRDO also has approached France for help in refining its Prithvi and Agni theater missile systems, some of which have already been inducted into service.

A DRDO scientist said his agency is seeking broad-based technology cooperation with MBDA in many programs, but he refused to give details.
The proposed partnership is purely a commercial pact, the French diplomat said — the DRDO will pay for MBDA’s technical assistance and expertise.

MBDA officials in Paris were not immediately available for comment.

Consequences for DRDO

The Indian Defence Ministry official said the ministry is unhappy with the DRDO’s slow pace of missile development, which has led to program delays and cost overruns.

That is why the ministry has refused to budget additional missile development funds for the agency under the 2007-2011 defense plan. Instead, the DRDO has been told to fine-tune all ongoing delayed missile programs before the end of the five-year plan.

These missiles include:

• Nag, the third-generation Nag, a top-attack, fire-and-forget anti-tank guided missile under development since 1987. With a range of more than 4 kilometers and a solid-propellant motor, it has been developed to counter contemporary tank armor and meet Army and Air Force requirements. The Nag has been tested with French-made seeker systems, for which the DRDO is seeking transfer of technology. After more than 40 test trials, the Nag will undergo a dozen more tests before serial production.

• Trishul, the quick–reaction, solid fuel-propelled missile under development since 1983. After several trials by the military, it has been downgraded to an experimental missile. The Army and Air Force were to have used it against low-flying aircraft, while the Navy was to have a modified version to counter sea-skimming missiles like the French-built Exocet and U.S.-built Harpoon missiles. In the Army version, three missiles would have been mounted on a tracked vehicle equipped with two radar systems, one for surveillance, the other for tracking and guidance.

Akash, the surface-to-air, 25-kilometer-range missile under development since 1980. It is ready for serial production, but at the Defence Ministry’s behest will be built by a consortium of state-owned and private Indian companies.The Akash can carry a 50-kilogram payload and has a first-stage fuel-booster motor and second-stage ram-rocket motor. Its guidance includes ground radar and on-board precision homing systems.

Astra, the beyond-visual-range, air- to-air missile being developed by the DRDO’s Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL). At 150 kilograms, Astra is the lightest missile in its class and has a range of up to 80 kilometers. Scheduled for 2008 serial production, it will be mounted on the Air Force’s Mirage 2000, MiG-29, Sea Harrier and Su-30 aircraft and on the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft.

• Sagarika, the secret cruise missile project under development at the DRDL since the early 1990s. Designed to have a range of more than 1,000 kilometers, it has been flight-tested at only 300 kilometers. The Sagarika’s launch weight, including payload, is 5,600 kilograms. Its ram-jet engine is intended to make the missile more stable so that it can be configured for launch from submarines.

Pierre Tran contributed to this report from Paris.

I dont have the link to this report. Found it at BR. So, take it at its face value.
I didnt know Astra AA was to enter serial production! this is good news that we have our own BVR capable AA missile. but is it true????

And also about Akash SAM. The article says its gonna enter serial production, does that means the armed forces are finally satisfied with the results?
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Old October 24th, 2006, 07:08 AM
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Re: Missile capability -- India vs Pakistan: Who is superior?

Max, does it matter if a missile being used by Pukis is made in China or North Korea. When a nuke tipped missile is coming your way, will you say hey thats a chink missile that paks copied and blah blah. The destruction will be evident no matter where they came from.

Secondly whenever you have liquid filled missiles, you are asking for trouble. Becuase of the time it takes to fuel these missles, they cannot be posed for either a surprise attack (they will be easily tracked by enemy sattelites) or a counter strike becuase by the time you fuel and arm them, these missles are duds and sitting targets. An average missle like Prithvi would take almost 50 minutes to fully fuel and get the guidance systems on track for an attack. Considering it would take a Hatf hardly 15 mins to reach the corners of India, what chance would Prithvi have to even get to a boost stage.

I always hear people say that the puki missiles are not accurate and their error margin is around 5 meters. Would it matter if a nuke tipped missiles is even off by 50 meters. You are still gonna get screwed.

Ramesh, the only reason that Astra and Brahmos are seing the light of day is becuase of foreign participation in these programs. I think MoD need to invite foregn participation in defense programs or our lallus are going be scratching their balls all their lives for something to work with no hope and billions down the drain. Not to mention, scrapping the programs after years of fake successful press releases.
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Old October 24th, 2006, 09:57 AM
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Re: Missile capability -- India vs Pakistan: Who is superior?

Quote:
Originally Posted by padhu
Max, does it matter if a missile being used by Pukis is made in China or North Korea. When a nuke tipped missile is coming your way, will you say hey thats a chink missile that paks copied and blah blah. The destruction will be evident no matter where they came from.

Secondly whenever you have liquid filled missiles, you are asking for trouble. Becuase of the time it takes to fuel these missles, they cannot be posed for either a surprise attack (they will be easily tracked by enemy sattelites) or a counter strike becuase by the time you fuel and arm them, these missles are duds and sitting targets. An average missle like Prithvi would take almost 50 minutes to fully fuel and get the guidance systems on track for an attack. Considering it would take a Hatf hardly 15 mins to reach the corners of India, what chance would Prithvi have to even get to a boost stage.

I always hear people say that the puki missiles are not accurate and their error margin is around 5 meters. Would it matter if a nuke tipped missiles is even off by 50 meters. You are still gonna get screwed.

Ramesh, the only reason that Astra and Brahmos are seing the light of day is becuase of foreign participation in these programs. I think MoD need to invite foregn participation in defense programs or our lallus are going be scratching their balls all their lives for something to work with no hope and billions down the drain. Not to mention, scrapping the programs after years of fake successful press releases.

they have incorporated solid fuel technology into prithvi long back, dint you know it????
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Old October 24th, 2006, 10:05 AM
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Re: Missile capability -- India vs Pakistan: Who is superior?

Quote:
Originally Posted by style bhai
they have incorporated solid fuel technology into prithvi long back, dint you know it????
Its not deployed as yet the last time I heard. Unless you are referring to the Naval variant (Dhanush).

Last edited by padhu; October 24th, 2006 at 10:11 AM.
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Old October 24th, 2006, 10:17 AM
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Re: Missile capability -- India vs Pakistan: Who is superior?

My haunch was right...Dhanush is liquid stage too.

http://www.missilethreat.com/missile...ush_india.html

They still havent deployed the solid fuel based variants.
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Old October 24th, 2006, 10:22 AM
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Re: Missile capability -- India vs Pakistan: Who is superior?

The Prithvi 1, which is the operational land based version is still liquid fuel based. Prithvi 2, which is the Air Force variant still uses liquid fuel.

So Prithvi, still is a dud.

I find it a bit taken aback when people complain about the puki capabilities coming from China and NKR but we rubbish off our own derivates from russian technologies.
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Old October 24th, 2006, 10:29 AM
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Re: Missile capability -- India vs Pakistan: Who is superior?

If you got the time to read 200 pages, read this report about Missile and space capabilities of the world and how they are related. India has a promising future but we are not there as yet.

http://www.claremont.org/static/IWGreport.pdf
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Old October 24th, 2006, 11:56 AM
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Re: Missile capability -- India vs Pakistan: Who is superior?

Hey Maxbania pai, please provide another option, "neither". Reading Padrahi pai's post, I get this feeling that Indian missile technology is not superior... but then I know for a fact that islamic minds, situated on the tip of their penises, have been chopped off at birth... and however much technology you can buy after that, what's the use of accumulating missiles if you do not know whether the green button or the red button launches them
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