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  #61  
Old October 16th, 2016, 12:09 AM
Shringarey Shringarey is offline
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Re: Right to Revoke Consent? Your opinions

I was once asked in a seminar whether there was any period in history when women were respected for their abilities and not their sexuality. Where they were not "treated like meat"

Yes. Several. Then I went on to show how such societies lived, and how they were oppressive to women far more than can be imagined. This sounded surprising to the audience. But there is a problem with a society that respects women for their abilities and not for their sexuality. Know what that society does? Such a society respects women for their abilities and not for their sexuality. Yes, you read that right. The statement is a tautology, a repetition. I'll explain.

When a society respects women for their abilities, you will find more women competing with men. In general, there is no real competitive advantage to men in most fields. So women are as likely to succeed as men. But then they are as likely to fail too. The men who are failures are on the road, eking out a miserable living. The only reason why women are not is because of their sexuality. A society which respects women of ability show necessarily lower respect for women without ability. A society which does not have sexuality of women and its procreative powers at the back of their mind, that society cares a hoot if women are on the road, if women are in danger.

Wait a minute - you say. If that is true, why are there no homeless women today? After all we do respect women's abilities to a large extent. The reason is that homelessness is temporarily kept at bay by creating shelters and child welfare funds. This cannot last for long , a fiscal crunch is coming. At that time you will see women homeless - when govt cannot act as "husband" to so many women.

Many women would like to try their fortune and be successful as men. And they most certainly can. Men have nothing unique about them in most fields. But if women fail, they want to have the right to be a housewife. That right is not available to them. Why? Because every successful woman means a job of a man is gone and a housewife job is simultaneously erased.

Get it? I am NOT saying that women cannot succeed. All I am saying is this - if some women succeed, others will necessarily fail - and the failed women will have no one to take care of them. That such a society will be horrendous to women.

THINK!!!!
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  #62  
Old October 16th, 2016, 05:09 AM
Shringarey Shringarey is offline
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Re: Right to Revoke Consent? Your opinions

I'll recount a story a guy told me.

He was about 18 years of age. He announced that "he will never get married and get destroyed by the family court system. He will never be a slave for life"

His feminist mother said "hmmmm"

a few weeks after that he heard his mother advising one of her lady friends on how to extract the maximum from her husband in their ongoing divorce. After the call the guy told his mom "That is why I am not getting married". The mother was quiet for a moment, but then said that she was proud of her son.
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  #63  
Old October 16th, 2016, 05:15 AM
Shringarey Shringarey is offline
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Re: Right to Revoke Consent? Your opinions

Please read this

https://www.yomyomf.com/japan%E2%80%...doll-brothels/


I do not want to make any moral comment, but the fact is japaneese men are paying for doll-brothels more than they are paying for substitutes. Soon this will hit the Western World
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  #64  
Old October 17th, 2016, 11:16 AM
Aashika Aashika is offline
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Re: Right to Revoke Consent? Your opinions

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Originally Posted by Shringarey View Post
Aashika,

You have raised two separate questions viz. i) What I want from women and ii) Why I hate women. I'll answer both, but in two different posts one after another

What do I want from women? Why fairness and equality - that is all. Women object to men calling them whores. As a protest they have "slut walks". If I call a woman a whore, all women will come and raise a ruckus. She cannot be called a whore, no matter what she does. Fair enough. But I would like that no woman calls me a coward. Immaterial of how I behave. Is that too much to ask? But women do not accept it saying, "If you behave like a coward, you better well be called a coward". Huh? I don't get it.

What do I want? If women have a right to revoke consent for whatsoever reason, so should men. If a marriage is fixed and the woman drops out, it is OK, but if a man drops out, he is held to task. Is it too much to ask that women be held to same standard as men? An argument is made that a breakup hurts women more. But does it? Why do men commit suicides far more often than women?

What do I want? I want to be able to live freely without being considered a rascal just for being a man. I told the case of "Papa, all I want is that I not be beaten up for Christmas." It presumes that beaters are men. But when it was pointed out that women beat children more, they should have put "Momma, I do not want to be beaten this summer." That does not seem to matter.

What do I want? When most of the homeless are men, shelters for women are being built and men are left to rot. Some of them are war veterans. This happens even in cold countries. Somehow, women deserve shelter but not men. More women die from breast cancer than men. More men die from prostrate cancer. No funds for prostrate cancer, a lot for breast cancer - despite the fact that women live a full 10 years more than men.

You see what I want? I can go on and on.
Comparing the words whore to coward is like comparing apples to oranges. A whore is a whore and a coward is a coward.

I bet if you call man a whore he will take objection to it and march around. Under those circumstances if women say that he shall be called a whore for the acts he does, then I agree that is not fair. Rules should apply for men and women equally.

We can go on and on about why pharmaceutical companies invest more in breast cancer meds than in prostate cancer. We can also argue why DIPG (that mostly affects children) has less funding in terms of research than breast cancer and prostrate cancer put together. Conclusion is that these companies invest in things that make money. THERE IS NOTHING GOING ON THAT IS DESIGNED TO DELIBERATELY SCREW WITH MEN.

I cannot speak of all the situations but from personal experience, yes, itseems like a breakup did impact women. Maybe I am missing the bigger picture coz I am a woman.
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  #65  
Old October 17th, 2016, 12:03 PM
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Re: Right to Revoke Consent? Your opinions

are you freakin' kidding me? women shelters compared to homeless men? was that a question, seriously? every woman living in modern-day urban India knows of the insecurity that every member of our gender grapples with day in day out. step out onto the street & a thousand tharki eyes will be scanning you, judging your choice of clothes & ogling at your body making you feel threatened just because you are a woman & supposedly vulnerable to sexual violence. what makes you think that eve-teasers, gropers & leering gazes does not invoke the humiliating sensation of being mentally stripped naked? how often does that happen to you, Shring? women get so fucking used to this shit ... one stops feeling distressed you might think? no, it's not just another hassle .. this only leads me to think, if we educated & so called independent women who by all means have the capacity to take care of ourselves can be so defenceless & can fall prey to heinous crimes, how about women coming from lower standing who not only battle this external subjugation but are also oppressed right inside their homes by god knows who all ... how are these women suppose to survive on the streets making room for you helpless men, i wonder.
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  #66  
Old October 17th, 2016, 12:39 PM
Aashika Aashika is offline
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Re: Right to Revoke Consent? Your opinions

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Originally Posted by Shringarey View Post
I am Joe Doe. I have a problem. Please help me choose.

I was born in California. When I was about 10 years of age, I started feeling attracted towards a girl in my class. The feeling was strange. My parents understood. They told me about the facts of life. They taught me that I should go to school and get good grades, graduate from a good university, get a good job, have a house. Then and only then can I get a girl.

I got good grades,a good job. But something happened. I am in touch with my seniors. They tell me their experiences. I found that those who have good jobs and marry are soon divorced by their wives. Invariably, the wives get custody of child. Wife tries to extort as much money as she can from him. She uses the kids as a bargaining chip. It lands up so that he has to work like a dog to support a wife and kids who he hardly gets to see. He is a slave for life, risking even prison if he fails to pay.

But there were other seniors who did not have good jobs. They drifted along - Mc Donald server, car cleaner, thrash collector, etc. But when they got kids from their girlfriends, the girlfriends never sued them for support - because he had nothing to give. Rather, they went to the state and got support. They dare not sue their boyfriend, because if they did, state support stops. The children were not used as pawns. The guy could come and visit the children whenever he liked. First, with no antagonism with her ex, she felt it was good for the kids. Secondly, she required his active support to get state funds. He was not staying with her, but drop in now and then. He has humped a lot of girls, got a lot of kids and leading the merry life.

I am at crossroads. I have done some calculations and would now like to come to a decision. What should I do? Get a proper job and get married? I have a 33% chance of a reasonably successful marital life, a 33% chance of being amicably divorced where I pay child support and spousal support ad infinitum, and get to see the kid only 2 hrs every alternate thursday. I have a balance 34% chance of being divorced, not getting to see the kids at all, being made to pay ever increasing support and landing up in jail.

There is another way. I can be a bum. I will not get so much respect. But I will have lots of girlfriends from which I would have lots of kids. I will not be harassed for money, I will be able to visit my kids anytime I want, and stay with any girlfriend when I am financially down or lazy.

Which alternative I should take?. Please help me

Note : This is based on real stories. These are not rare stories, but very very common in the Western World.
wow. whom are you hanging out with? Seriously shring.
I am yet to meet a single woman who is marrying specifically for the purpose of extortion. In all that calculation, have you considered that when a woman files for a divorce, she is also going to be single? You know that taking care of kids require much more time/energy etc right?

BUT i have met 4 women (from South America) who refused to marry because they have seen their dads abusing their moms. They are in a live-in a relationship and have been since years with kids.

Children used as pawns. hmmm. I havent considered that. Surely you dont believe we women have kids only to use them as pawns for future child support?
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  #67  
Old October 17th, 2016, 12:49 PM
Aashika Aashika is offline
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Re: Right to Revoke Consent? Your opinions

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Originally Posted by Shringarey View Post
Why is women feeling that they are doing men a favor when they have sex a fatal flaw? I'll explain.

I often give the example of socialism because there are a lot of parallels. Labor used to say, "The entrepreneurs are out to screw us. They want to be exploit us, we need laws to protect us. Unfortunately, we are not getting jobs. These rascals are not creating factories and employing us. If they have factories, they use machines. They are exploiting us. We need to see that machines are banned. We have to pass laws forcing them to hire us, or at least pay us if they don't want us. We need laws to see that they don't exploit us, and make us work like dogs." Can you see how ridiculous it was?

The women talk the same way. They say - "The men are out to screw us. They want to be exploit us, we need laws to protect us. Unfortunately, there are not any good guys anymore. Where have the good guys gone? These rascals are not marrying and providing for us. If they want sex, they use porn. They are exploiting us. We need to see that porn is banned. We have to pass laws forcing them to marry us, or at least pay us if they don't want us. We need laws to see that they don't exploit us"

Can you see the parallel? The more they try to harass men, the more the men are running away. The serious problem before western women is that there are no good guys. Ladies, you have killed the beast. Believing that your ability to offer sex was so valuable, you kept on increasing the price tag, till you have priced yourself out of the market. Why would men want to have anything with a Western lady when they have dolls, and each other?

The womb is valuable - but not infinitely so.
You are mixing so many things together. Porn in itself is not bad. Alcohol in itself is not bad. when the addiction comes to a point where you cannot function without it is bad. Porn "addiction" is believed to have negative impact in a closed relationship with a man/woman. If you are single, then I guess it wont have an impact. As such, (well, we are all adults here and I hope you dont get me wrong for being graphic) your/my/his/her right hand can only take you to some extent. Can you get the protein and required nutrition from tofu alone? Sure. But its really not the same as getting chicken/veggies etc. I hope you get my point.
But if you want a blond doll and actually prefer it, whom am I to have any say in that?

But yes, womb is valuable. But not infinitely so. Not from one man at least. over all, yes, you need to procreate.
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  #68  
Old October 17th, 2016, 12:58 PM
Aashika Aashika is offline
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Re: Right to Revoke Consent? Your opinions

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Originally Posted by Shringarey View Post
28Virgo,


What if the man is under the influence of drink? If a woman has sex with him, has she not committed rape? What if it was under false pretenses - say of marriage?
Are you talking only in Indian context? As such, I would think if the man was drunk, his word (of marriage) is not admissible in court of law.

I think the rape laws are in favor of women, for, men (generally speaking) can over power a woman physically (again, generally speaking) far more easily than women.

Are you saying both men and women should prove that a deliberate rape happened for it to be considered a rape? How would you do that? Are you looking for assault marks/signs on the girl/guy?

Last edited by Aashika; October 17th, 2016 at 01:01 PM.
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  #69  
Old October 17th, 2016, 01:10 PM
Aashika Aashika is offline
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Re: Right to Revoke Consent? Your opinions

And Shring, take a couple of homeless men and a couple of homeless women lying on the street. Who has more chances of getting raped?

Having said that, does it make it right for a man to remain homeless? No. There are winter shelters for men, at least where I live. Not as many as women do (as at least where I live, women get abused more than men) but they do have shelters where there is heat.
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  #70  
Old October 17th, 2016, 01:59 PM
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Re: Right to Revoke Consent? Your opinions

so, I won't brag about being a psychology topper in college & all but what I understand from this thread (& I could be mighty wrong)is that it's normal to experience feelings of rejection, Shring. absolutely normal! In fact from here on, you're likely to become introspective & examine yourself. Self-examination is believed to be a part of the healing process ... however, my dear, it's really really really important for you to resist the temptation to feel like a victim, because darlin' this will only hamper your movement from moving on with your life. break-ups, divorces are devastating. something of this sort only leaves you feeling angry, sad & self-critical. I can very well understand how shaken up you must be to the core. all these thoughts that you've been pouring in on this thread are only going to grab hold of you & make you vulnerable .. make you think you're making quite some sense here. it's overwhelming I know, it's normal-trust me. if you don't mind, I'd only suggest (that too for your wellness) that you need to accept that it's natural to feel rejected when a relationship ends but don't ever take these break-ups/divorces personally. you just need to focus on self-love. take the high road, work towards forgiving your ex & yourself. approach your next partner whoever he/she/it/they maybe with arms & eyes wide open. I really hope you get energized by the possibilities ahead of you!
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  #71  
Old October 17th, 2016, 10:09 PM
Shringarey Shringarey is offline
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Re: Right to Revoke Consent? Your opinions

Ms Shaanze and Aashika,

There seems to be a confusion here. From your posts I feel that you both believe that I am griping against the system and want it changed. NO! NO! I am not looking to change the system. My contention is that the system has gone too far, and change is impossible now - or at least highly unlikely. I am arguing that the entire edifice is going to collapse, whether we change it or not. We cannot stop it. We can only protect ourselves.

I am like the guy who tells people that they have used too much ground water and now the water level has reached so low that soon the water that they will get is from the lower poisonous depths of the earth, that a major catastrophe is coming. And both of you are shouting me off, telling me why water was used. It is no longer a moral issue ladies, no longer an issue of right or wrong, but an issue of survival.

That said, I will answer your questions one by one. in the coming posts.
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Old October 17th, 2016, 10:17 PM
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Re: Right to Revoke Consent? Your opinions

Aashika,

You said "

Comparing the words whore to coward is like comparing apples to oranges. A whore is a whore and a coward is a coward.


Let me clarify the argument. In today's society, if I call a woman a "whore", all the women will object. There will be hell to play. Suppose I argue like this "You can call me a whore. I do not bother. Equality is equality". Suppose I argue like that, the response that I will get is - "But you are a man. Society is hypocritical. A woman called a whore is looked down upon, but not a man. You are using false equivalence here." I agree. It is a false equivalence. But what is whore for a woman is coward for a man. A man called a "coward" is different from a woman called a coward. Should not all the women who do not like to be called whores, should they not refrain from calling guys cowards?

Do you know how many times in his life a man is called a "coward"? Is it too much to ask women to refrain from it? Just because a woman does not like how a man exercizes autonomy, that he refuses to risk his life for hers, does not give her the right to call him a coward.
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  #73  
Old October 17th, 2016, 11:57 PM
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Re: Right to Revoke Consent? Your opinions

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wow. whom are you hanging out with? Seriously shring.
I am yet to meet a single woman who is marrying specifically for the purpose of extortion. In all that calculation, have you considered that when a woman files for a divorce, she is also going to be single? You know that taking care of kids require much more time/energy etc right?
I do not know which world you are living in Aashikaa, but go on the net and check out "professional divorcee". Several women do exactly that. But that is not important as they are still a minority. Most women do get married for the right reasons, and not for extortion. But once divorce proceedings start, extortion takes place. She has effectively got herself an assured pension. In fact, the law says that if the man does not pay, he can be jailed. This is nothing other that debtors' prison of the 19th century!! Remember how repulsed we get when we hear stories of men who were in debt and could not pay being imprisoned? That has come back. How can you justify a man being in prison if he does not pay? You can seize his assets, but debtors' prison? How different is it from the debtors' prison of Dickens? Is this not barbarous extortion? Also, that is the ONLY jail-able offense where you cannot get a state attorney if you cannot afford one. Is this not tyranny? THINK. Genuinely Think


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Children used as pawns. hmmm. I havent considered that. Surely you dont believe we women have kids only to use them as pawns for future child support?
No. I do NOT believe women have children to be used as pawns. But in very very many cases, children ARE used as pawns, divorce or not. Ever heard of "alienation of affections?" The number of cases children are used as pawns are galore.

I'll tell you one example, and there are many such. My boss was divorced and even after years she hated her husband. Every Christmas she would hang presents from the Christmas Tree saying that they came from their father, because "they should not feel abandoned". But at the same time, she would create situations where she would subtly tell their children that their father left them. When the kid was twelve, he said, "we know it is not pa. It is you giving us the gifts. Stop it." She was delighted! She did "everything right", and yet the children hated the father. He deserves it. But when the child grows up, he will realize that he has been taken for a ride (they always do). Then the rage will come within him. He is maimed for life. How many men and women have told me that their divorced father would send them letters, but the mother never let them receive it. Their mother also told them that their father never sent money. As adults, when they grew up and accosted their father, he provided proof that he did send money and letters. Suddenly the grown up children realized how they could afford so many things even though mom was not working - the extreme sacrifices made by the dad. Such cases abound dear.

But just as I am seeing them, so are other men. There is a marriage strike going on.
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  #74  
Old October 18th, 2016, 12:04 AM
Shringarey Shringarey is offline
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Re: Right to Revoke Consent? Your opinions

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Originally Posted by Aashika View Post
You are mixing so many things together. Porn in itself is not bad. Alcohol in itself is not bad. when the addiction comes to a point where you cannot function without it is bad. Porn "addiction" is believed to have negative impact in a closed relationship with a man/woman. If you are single, then I guess it wont have an impact. As such, (well, we are all adults here and I hope you dont get me wrong for being graphic) your/my/his/her right hand can only take you to some extent. Can you get the protein and required nutrition from tofu alone? Sure. But its really not the same as getting chicken/veggies etc. I hope you get my point.
But if you want a blond doll and actually prefer it, whom am I to have any say in that?

But yes, womb is valuable. But not infinitely so. Not from one man at least. over all, yes, you need to procreate.
That is the point. Procreation is not happening. The West is facing a demographic winter. Replenishment of youth is done by importing people from middle east. If things go this way, in twenty years, young American children will be saying "iielaan alaistikhlaal al amirki" - "American Declaration of Independence" in Arabic

You think thus will not happen? Soon you will see (if not seeing already) that relationships and marriages breaking because the man was not interested in her. You think it wont happen? It has happened in India at least six times in history (in various regions) that I know. What did the kings do when men started being "monks"? They started advertising sex. Ever wonder why you have all sex positions in several India temples? Now compare that to some Western governments having advertisements which say, "Have sex. It is fun."

Enjoy the downfall......

Last edited by Shringarey; October 18th, 2016 at 12:19 AM.
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  #75  
Old October 18th, 2016, 12:15 AM
Shringarey Shringarey is offline
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Re: Right to Revoke Consent? Your opinions

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Originally Posted by Aashika View Post
And Shring, take a couple of homeless men and a couple of homeless women lying on the street. Who has more chances of getting raped?

Having said that, does it make it right for a man to remain homeless? No. There are winter shelters for men, at least where I live. Not as many as women do (as at least where I live, women get abused more than men) but they do have shelters where there is heat.
I agree. But that is one statistic which women have been bandying around. There are other things which happen to men. They form nearly 99%+ of active war deaths and disablements, 99%+ of industrial accidents. They are more prone to be hit, killed or maimed. 99% of all dangerous and dirty jobs are held by men.

Women have been using the fact that "women are raped" to get EVERYTHING. Go on the streets. See what percentage of people are guys. If you are in US, they will probably be war veterans. Just because women can get raped does not mean they get EVERYTHING. That is the issue. So little is left for men, that they have started opting out. Very soon you will see (in 5-10years) that women make up 75% of university students. This is because men have dropped out willingly, from a system that does not cherish them.

When a boy is born,. he knows he is the "disposable gender". He has to place his life before women. He has to take up dangerous jobs. But what is his reward? Women say "We get raped and you do not" and take it all. If he fails, he is on the street. Why would he try to succeed?

As he drops out, taxes get a shortfall. You then have to extract labor by force. Round up the homeless and make them repair roads (a suggestion by National Organization of Women). Have bachelor tax (Hillary Clinton - each man must be made to pay extra for abusing women. Married men, because they have a family to support should be exempt). It will work for a time. Then.... Enjoy the decline!!!!
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