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  #1  
Old December 3rd, 2001, 07:51 AM
Rahul Rahul is offline
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Angry Can't India attack Pakistan now....

Israeli a close ally in this war of terrorism with US strike against the wishes of US, cant we do the same. what are we lacking in compair with Israel to attack on Pakistan, even we and whole world know they are behind terrorism in India.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/03/in...3CND-MIDE.html

Strikes an Apparent Response to Weekend's Wave of Bombings
By JAMES BENNET (CNN)

Palestinian-ruled Gaza City was hit by about 10 Israeli missiles just before nightfall today.

Thomas Friedman on Terrorism presents six of Mr. Friedman's Op-Ed columns on the threat of terrorism facing the U.S. prior to the attacks of Sept. 11. Read now for just $4.95.

(Reuters)

JERUSALEM, Dec. 3 - Israeli missiles landed near the headquarters of the Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat in Gaza today after Israel said it was preparing a military response to a third suicide bombing in just over 12 hours.

The Israelis said one helicopter had been hit by the missiles. Mr. Arafat was believed to have been in Ramallah in the West Bank at the time.

A Palestinian cabinet minister, Saeb Erekat, said he had asked the United States to force Israel to halt what he said was a bombardment of Gaza City.

The attack came after Palestinian security forces said today that they had made more than 100 arrests after a suicide bomber struck on a bus in Haifa, but Israelis scoffed at the moves.

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is scheduled to address the nation this evening after returning today from a meeting in Washington with President Bush. He was then due to convene a special session of the security cabinet to decide how Israel would reply to a string of bombings that has left at least 25 dead in less than two days.

Some Israeli government ministers spoke openly of removing Mr. Arafat from power.

Israeli troops further tightened travel restrictions on Palestinians today, blockading towns on the West Bank, and the Palestinian Authority declared a state of emergency on the West Bank and in the Gaza Strip, suspending any due process in making arrests.

At what appeared to be a dangerous pivot point between peace and all-out conflict, President Bush grimly condemned what he called ``the horrific acts of murder'' in Israel.

``This is a moment where the advocates for peace in the Middle East must rise up and fight terror,'' Mr. Bush said on the South Lawn of the White House on Sunday before meeting with Mr. Sharon. ``Chairman Arafat must do everything in his power to find those who murdered innocent Israelis and bring them to justice.''

The Bush administration has in the past demanded that Israeli forces not invade Palestinian-controlled territory, but Secretary of State Colin L. Powell said Sundau that the administration would leave it to the Israeli government to choose a proper response.

``We're not about to tell Mr. Sharon what he should do,'' Mr. Powell said on the CBS television program ``Face the Nation.'' But, he said, ``we've always said to both sides, `You better think about the consequences of what happens the next day or the day after.'''

The attack on Sunday in Haifa - which burst the sides and top of the No.16 bus and scattered belongings, blood and body parts along a 100-yard route before it crashed - followed a coordinated assault on a crowded pedestrian mall in Jerusalem Saturday night, in which two suicide bombers and a car bomb killed 10 Israelis.

The Islamist group Hamas claimed responsibility for the attacks in Haifa and in Jerusalem, saying it was seeking to avenge the killing by Israelis on Nov. 23 of its senior West Bank leader, Mahmoud Abu Hanoud.

The wave of violence since then is reminiscent of a series of terrorist attacks in February and March of 1996, after Israeli forces killed another Hamas leader, Yahya Ayyash.

At the time, Mr. Arafat arrested many leaders of Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, in a move Israelis cited Sunday as evidence that he can crack down on violence when he chooses to. But Mr. Arafat was much stronger politically then than he is now.

In a separate attack on Sunday morning, Palestinian gunmen opened fire along a road to two settlements in the northern Gaza Strip, killing another Israeli. The two men then entered an Israeli shooting range, where they were killed by soldiers, the Israeli army said.

A Palestinian was killed in a firefight with Israeli troops near the West Bank town of Tulkarem late Sunday, and today a Palestinian farmer was shot dead as he walked toward his field. The Israeli military said troops shot a Palestinian man they suspected was trying to plant a bomb.

The Bush administration's new envoy in Israel, Anthony C. Zinni, who is in the country seeking a truce in the 14-month conflict, was staying in a Jerusalem hotel Saturday night near the scene of the bombings. On Sunday, when he went to lay a wreath at the site, he was jeered by dozens of Israelis. ``Zinni go home!'' they chanted.

In a statement, Mr. Zinni called the attack ``the deepest evil one can imagine.'' Mr. Bush's demand for action from Mr. Arafat notwithstanding, some Israeli officials said it was past time to expect help from the Palestinian leader.

``On a day like this we are allowed to say that what is good for the Americans is also good for us,'' Limor Livnat, the minister of education, told Israeli television.

``We should make a strategic decision as the Americans did. It is not enough to eliminate a terrorism leader; they are doing everything to topple the terror regime. We, too, will have to topple the terror regime.''

Mr. Arafat's top security officials in the West Bank and Gaza promised to move immediately against people and organizations undertaking terrorist attacks. ``The Hamas and the Islamic Jihad are trying to destroy our dream, our national project,'' Jibril Rajoub, the commander of the Palestinian Preventive Security in the West Bank, said in an interview. ``We will not let them do so.''

He promised that the Palestinian Authority, which governs Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, would ``deal with these people according to our national interest and responsibility,'' adding, ``There will be no compromise with these people.''

But referring to comments by Israeli officials in favor of expelling Mr. Arafat or attacking the Palestinian Authority, he warned, ``Destroying the Palestinian Authority will lead to war.''

Sari Nusseibeh, the representative of the Palestinians in Jerusalem, said in a telephone interview that Mr. Arafat recognized that attacks like the one in Haifa on Sunday ``will lead to the point of undermining his own authority.'' But he said that Mr. Arafat ``is not in control'' of those who carry them out. And while Mr. Arafat was trying to stop the violence, Dr. Nusseibeh said, he needed to demonstrate to his people that they would gain something from such actions.

Right now, he said, ``we live in a state of war, and people feel like more or less anything or everything is legitimate in such a state of war.''

Shimon Kabesa, the driver of the No.16 bus, told reporters from his hospital bed that the bomber overpaid for his ride. The driver said that when he called the man back for change, he evidently detonated a bomb strapped to his waist. It was just after noon.

Giora Bernstein was driving the No.17, about nine feet behind No.16 as it pulled away from a stop and headed down a hill in a neighborhood of the seaside city where Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs live side by side. ``I heard a strong boom,'' Mr. Bernstein said. ``There was a huge flame that came out from underneath and enveloped the bus. When the smoke cleared, there wasn't a bus, just some things on the ground and two bodies.''

Assad Abu Sheeban, 33, was outside his home in Haifa when he heard the blast up the street and saw the bus careering downhill, out of control. He saw a body tumble from the bus, he said, and heard passengers screaming as it rolled through a traffic light, jumped a sidewalk, crushed a guard rail and finally crashed into a large rock.

``I didn't think twice,'' said Mr. Sheeban, interviewed holding an orange garbage bag containing his bloodied clothes. ``I ran up to help and started to take people out. There were people without hands, without heads. There were hands on the sidewalk.''

More than 40 people were wounded in the attack. Some were treated for shock, while more than a dozen were listed in critical condition.

After the Haifa attack Mr. Bernstein, who is 43, said, ``I always think that I could now be in a bag.'' He was hospitalized for shock, but he said he intended to return to work as a bus driver. ``It's not more dangerous to be in a bus than to be walking in Haifa, in a market or a bank,'' he said.

Asked what Israelis and Palestinians should do after such violence, Mr. Bernstein said, ``We have to talk.''
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Old December 3rd, 2001, 08:05 AM
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What we are lacking Rahul is unity. The Israelis are united, we are not. We have an opposition who opposes every initiative that the govt wants to take. They are afraid of losing votes of the minority. Imagine, they are opposing the POTO! They don't mind risking the security of the country, but don't want to lose votes.
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Old December 3rd, 2001, 08:33 AM
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actually hame attack karne ki naubat hi nahi ayegi...agle sall june tak pakistaan avashya attack karega....is baar usne kaaphhi saara dhan aur hathiyaar mile hai ..us and china se... istamaal to aroor karega..aur is baar mostly army bhi layega..jehadiyon ke saath...hindustaan ke khilaf jehad karne ke liye....aur saath mein sab muslim desho ka moral.fiancial.manpower lekar
hamhe apne bachaav ke liye shashastra hone ki jaroorat hai
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Old December 3rd, 2001, 09:06 AM
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Cool you are partially right Netraji

Quote:
Originally posted by Netra
What we are lacking Rahul is unity. The Israelis are united, we are not. We have an opposition who opposes every initiative that the govt wants to take. They are afraid of losing votes of the minority. Imagine, they are opposing the POTO! They don't mind risking the security of the country, but don't want to lose votes.
I agree vote bank politics with its spices like Dalit reservation, regional etc. matters a lot, but opposition too wont be wrong all the time, like I was reading Opposition in US rising and discussing a lot for new law against the immigrant, same way POTO too has some loophole and if someone rising liable question to save some innocent humanbeing nothing wrong into it.

We have seen and we all knows that during wartime only, india stands like united, above then any bloody and ugly politics, it does happened during kargil time too.

Its only will and wishes of our political parties, they dont have agenda to fight terrorism, infect I doubt if any of the political party ever included terrorism in their election agends, and weight it above the 2 Rs Kilo rice aur free sarees to poors.

As always Politicians sux
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Old December 4th, 2001, 06:03 AM
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Rahul, agreed POTO has got loopholes, but the opposition is unwilling to discuss them. The govt. has asked them to give their comments so that the relevant sections could be modified, but this offer was refused. They just don't want POTO and that's it.

Sometime back when there was talk about bombing militant camps in POK, the opposition refused on the grounds that it went against the Simla agreement.

In the 1971 war against Pakistan, it was Jan Sangh in the opposition with ABV as the leader and they give full support to Indira Gandhi for her strategy.

When Bush decided to bomb Afghanistan, the whole parliament (or is it Congress) went along with him. Suppose the democrats had opposed him, what then?
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Old December 4th, 2001, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Netra
What we are lacking Rahul is unity. The Israelis are united, we are not. We have an opposition who opposes every initiative that the govt wants to take. They are afraid of losing votes of the minority. Imagine, they are opposing the POTO! They don't mind risking the security of the country, but don't want to lose votes.

The airstrikes came just hours after Prime
Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites)
and his Cabinet branded Arafat's
government a supporter of terrorism and
singled out two organizations affiliated with
the Palestinian leader as terror groups - the
Tanzim militia and Force 17, a branch of the Palestinian security forces.


The Cabinet decision prompted ministers from the moderate Labor Party to
walk out of the Cabinet meeting in protest, and some Labor leaders hinted
that the party might quit the coalition government.
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sometimes I sit and look at life from a different angle,dunno if I m God's child or Satan's angel
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Old December 4th, 2001, 07:43 AM
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Kya wahan par bhi coalition govt. hain?
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Old December 4th, 2001, 07:49 AM
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Yes mam
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Old December 4th, 2001, 07:50 AM
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wham bam
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kehtay hain waqt har zakham bhar deta hain; magar waqt hi mera zakham hai. Waqt nay mujhay pataa nahi kya banaa diya,varna main bhi kabhi insaan tha..
sometimes I sit and look at life from a different angle,dunno if I m God's child or Satan's angel
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Old December 4th, 2001, 07:55 AM
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Desi baba, wham bam ke baad, thank maam bola karte hain. Anyway you are welcome.
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Old December 4th, 2001, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Netra
Desi baba, wham bam ke baad, thank maam bola karte hain. Anyway you are welcome.
i thought some1 else would continue the sequence...

newayz..umm..i am waiting for that blessed day when u wont speak nicely with pakis.
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kehtay hain waqt har zakham bhar deta hain; magar waqt hi mera zakham hai. Waqt nay mujhay pataa nahi kya banaa diya,varna main bhi kabhi insaan tha..
sometimes I sit and look at life from a different angle,dunno if I m God's child or Satan's angel
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Old December 5th, 2001, 05:26 AM
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well wake up rahul sir.... such athread was not expected from u...leave out isreal yaar..they have got all americn weaponary inc. f-16's and attack helicopter contrary to palestine meak military power..and moreover isreal hasgot a secret nuclear programme..and i dont tink palestine can match it...in ant time...STRONG RESPECTS STRONG...u must have heard this one...
now coming to india and pak...both countries r nuclear powers..with both misile and air delivery systems..with the absence of 100% first strike-kill capability its weird to talk abt. this tigs...even america and isreal doesnt have this capability...even if 1-2 nukes r left is the first strike it means annhilation og mumbai and delhi for sure...means indian econony gone.....so its weird to even think of such scenarios....
now replying to guy called CHIRAG 2000...yeh naya member hin ky...bidu ko samjho ki bina facts ke yahan msti krne naa aaye...how stupid to write that pakistan has got military hardware from YSA..go to news sites archive...america denied delivery of F-16s...still there is a ban on export of dual-use tech to pak....americ gave a grant of some millions of dollars to pakistan to control the internal security of india..and believe me with that meak sum..u can buy nly kashinikov's...and regarding china,CHIRAG,,post 11 sep scenrio has changed..under FMCT nad MTCR china wont dare to secretly deliver any weapons system to pak...this will make china a point of discrimination in world diplomacy...btw i wouldlike t u to ubmit thread where its written us and china have delivered weapons sytems to pk..i will really appeciate it...
and regarding my view on POTO...believe me after 11 sep..there is a growing need of such a anti-terror law...presentTADA is not enough..oppostion is ****in asshole...they r keeping ntion security on stake to fulfil there vote politics...oh god will there be a light....
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Old December 5th, 2001, 05:29 AM
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grve mistake...i wrote ..."pakistan to control indiAn internal security....apologies...it sould be "to control its OWN internal security'
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Old December 5th, 2001, 05:55 AM
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Unhappy hmmm, you said it correctly...........

Quote:
Originally posted by vyomkeshsaxena
well wake up rahul sir.... such athread was not expected from u...leave out isreal yaar..they have got all americn weaponary inc. f-16's and attack helicopter contrary to palestine meak military power..and moreover isreal hasgot a secret nuclear programme..and i dont tink palestine can match it...in ant time...STRONG RESPECTS STRONG...u must have heard this one...
now coming to india and pak...both countries r nuclear powers..with both misile and air delivery systems..with the absence of 100% first strike-kill capability its weird to talk abt. this tigs...even america and isreal doesnt have this capability...even if 1-2 nukes r left is the first strike it means annhilation og mumbai and delhi for sure...means indian econony gone.....so its weird to even think of such scenarios....
now replying to guy called CHIRAG 2000...yeh naya member hin ky...bidu ko samjho ki bina facts ke yahan msti krne naa aaye...how stupid to write that pakistan has got military hardware from YSA..go to news sites archive...america denied delivery of F-16s...still there is a ban on export of dual-use tech to pak....americ gave a grant of some millions of dollars to pakistan to control the internal security of india..and believe me with that meak sum..u can buy nly kashinikov's...and regarding china,CHIRAG,,post 11 sep scenrio has changed..under FMCT nad MTCR china wont dare to secretly deliver any weapons system to pak...this will make china a point of discrimination in world diplomacy...btw i wouldlike t u to ubmit thread where its written us and china have delivered weapons sytems to pk..i will really appeciate it...
and regarding my view on POTO...believe me after 11 sep..there is a growing need of such a anti-terror law...presentTADA is not enough..oppostion is ****in asshole...they r keeping ntion security on stake to fulfil there vote politics...oh god will there be a light....
I know, I know, its just my imotions comes out, I know its not easy, specially country like indian to start a war, but atleast they can attack the terrorist camps in POK to bring this matter in world limelight, that its US closed ally whose sponsering and harboring terrorism, Even a symbolic attack solve this purpose.
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Old December 5th, 2001, 10:34 AM
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even yaar we cannot attack POK terrorist camps...its hard to explain this scenario...but punch line is that it will mean confrontation woth pakistan...we r fools to say that POK is still india's territory...we cannot hold elections there..we dont have our constitution machinery in that part..we dont have any forces..POK celebrates its independence on 24 october (not sure...but 90% i think this is the date)...we cant stop their celebrations..than how can we say POK is indian territory....also terrorists their r termed as "freedom fighters"...even western countries always fall short of declaring it a terrorist movement..rather they call it a DISPUTED TERRITORY...than how can we go after them...with no 3rd party mediation policy of indian state...even UN peace keeping force cannot be deployed...KASHMIR IS BURNING AND IT WILL CONTINUE TO BURN...take for example JERUSALEM...in 1956 (again i suppose this was the year) UN declared to internationalise the territory..but neither isreal nor palestine abide by the directive...in present scnario UN has become a bull-shit...its just the nations own interests that is counted today....even what happened in NAM movement...though we were the torch-bearers of this movement yet we were inclined heavily on russia and that made PAK. an ally of america...if u have a closer look we dont have good relations with any of our neighboring countries (except BURMA which is a protectorate of india)...we have got maoist prob. from nepal..pak and china r our enemies...bangladesh is also hostile nation...sri lanka's LTTE is a problem to us in disguise...NORTH-EASTERN states r burning...even others state have been enguled in terror acts...we need a change..POTO is a promise...but i dont know what makes oppostion oppose it...unless and until we have strict anti-terrror laws..we r going to disintegrate slowly but surely...very sad to write this statement but ots a long run truth...how can a state having tens of religions...culture...language survive...frankly speaking NE states r just a burden for us..they r no way connected with indian subcontinent in any form be it cultural..religious...its just the land based boundaries that connect them with us...we need a big political overhauling oterwise this country...how much gr8 it is will collapse...in my poinion we should strictly adhere to below mentioned points..
to give all the states autonomies with 4 things centralised
1)communication (all forms of telematic,mail system...surface..air transportation etc)
2) defence in time of aggression on any state
3) law with separate provision for self-sustained laws made by states
4) agricultural and sensitive research establishments
in return the states will have to pay taxes to central govt. so that central establishment can develop of above 4 points and also for human resource development
in this way both the states and country as whole can benifit...its time for change....WINDS OF CHANGE...what say echarchans....
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