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  #16  
Old February 21st, 2018, 07:26 AM
Aashika Aashika is offline
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Re: Irony of fate---Sikh separatist coming to tour India as Canada's defence minister

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Originally Posted by kkkk View Post
aise to, not many terrorist motivations appear rational. people don't need a valid motivation to mis-interpret their religion and wanting to enforce it using violence to make people submit to their aims/desires..
I agree. But its them (terrorists). They do not have a rationale. But we do. Maybe out of 100 people seeking refugee status, one is no-good. Would you sacrifice the 99 because of that 1 who "may" potentially turn into a terrorist in future?
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  #17  
Old February 21st, 2018, 07:57 AM
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Re: Irony of fate---Sikh separatist coming to tour India as Canada's defence minister

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Originally Posted by Aashika View Post
I agree. But its them (terrorists). They do not have a rationale. But we do. Maybe out of 100 people seeking refugee status, one is no-good. Would you sacrifice the 99 because of that 1 who "may" potentially turn into a terrorist in future?
there is no easy answer to be honest... that 1 OBL inspired 100s of thousands to become terrorists, so there is an argument on both the sides.

more than that though, european experience is that muslims congregate somewhere, they try to bring their way of thinking with them. Instead of showing gratitude to the host country, there have been numerous incidents like muslim youth molesting 100s of girls in parties. they will soon want Sharia law to be implemented and even native women to cover up or cry about their religious sentiments.

I am not making a case or an argument here - just writing what has been experienced - the point being that decision is difficult.
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  #18  
Old February 21st, 2018, 08:27 AM
Aashika Aashika is offline
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Re: Irony of fate---Sikh separatist coming to tour India as Canada's defence minister

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Originally Posted by kkkk View Post
there is no easy answer to be honest... that 1 OBL inspired 100s of thousands to become terrorists, so there is an argument on both the sides.

more than that though, european experience is that muslims congregate somewhere, they try to bring their way of thinking with them. Instead of showing gratitude to the host country, there have been numerous incidents like muslim youth molesting 100s of girls in parties. they will soon want Sharia law to be implemented and even native women to cover up or cry about their religious sentiments.

I am not making a case or an argument here - just writing what has been experienced - the point being that decision is difficult.
Yes...i agree with you on this. Its a very difficult decision to make.
I also agree that going by history around the world, chances are that Canada will become like France.
I am torn too. trust me...ethically its not correct to refuse help to people when its life/death. On the other hand, if my child can potentially be at risk...
Like you said, a difficult decision.
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  #19  
Old February 21st, 2018, 08:44 AM
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Re: Irony of fate---Sikh separatist coming to tour India as Canada's defence minister

Ironically this story comes from the Arab world.
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  #20  
Old February 21st, 2018, 10:19 AM
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Re: Irony of fate---Sikh separatist coming to tour India as Canada's defence minister

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Originally Posted by Aashika View Post
Yes...i agree with you on this. Its a very difficult decision to make.
I also agree that going by history around the world, chances are that Canada will become like France.
I am torn too. trust me...ethically its not correct to refuse help to people when its life/death. On the other hand, if my child can potentially be at risk...
Like you said, a difficult decision.
The question here is not ethics but survival. I am a vegetarian... but if stranded somewhere with no food, would I not eat whatever available meat that is there Or will ethics make its point here By being ethical now, you cannot endanger millions of lives of your fore-children. It is as simple as that.
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  #21  
Old February 21st, 2018, 11:55 AM
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Re: Irony of fate---Sikh separatist coming to tour India as Canada's defence minister

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Originally Posted by Sane Less View Post
The question here is not ethics but survival. I am a vegetarian... but if stranded somewhere with no food, would I not eat whatever available meat that is there Or will ethics make its point here By being ethical now, you cannot endanger millions of lives of your fore-children. It is as simple as that.
ad hominem.
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  #22  
Old February 21st, 2018, 12:01 PM
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Re: Irony of fate---Sikh separatist coming to tour India as Canada's defence minister

Sane, you are attacking the person, not the ideology. You want change? Then the only way to address it would be to address the root cause.
It all boils down to education and empowerment. Dont fool yourself with the abilities of what can be done sitting in a remote cave somewhere in the neighbouring country. They have proven it haven't they?

so what exactly you will be losing if you save a few lives today? From where I see, if you have the ability to save a person's life, save it.
"if" it comes to a point where your children are in danger, you deal with the danger as you see fit. I personally dont think you will be preventing much (though there are chances, which i am willing to take) danger by letting people in.

I see you will point me to France, to UK. I see it clearly. That is why I am saying, do not look at a person. Look at the ideology and address it.

Edit: I agree its a difficult decision. I dont believe there is an yes or no answer to this.

Last edited by Aashika; February 21st, 2018 at 12:19 PM.
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  #23  
Old February 21st, 2018, 12:22 PM
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Re: Irony of fate---Sikh separatist coming to tour India as Canada's defence minister

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Originally Posted by Aashika View Post

so what exactly you will be losing if you save a few lives today? From where I see, if you have the ability to save a person's life, save it.
"if" it comes to a point where your children are in danger, you deal with the danger as you see fit. I personally dont think you will be preventing much (though there are chances, which i am willing to take) danger by letting people in.

I see you will point me to France, to UK. I see it clearly. That is why I am saying, do not look at a person. Look at the ideology and address it.
They (muslim immigrants) are asking Aussies in Australia to not wear bikinis on beach.. dress conservatively. Aussies had to tell them to STFU and go back to their country if they wanted to impose their values on Aussies. Prollem is even if 2-3% are bad seeds, you letting in millions means you have a few thousand guys to track now.

ad hominems will happen since he is acting out the playbook.. same for the guy here.
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  #24  
Old February 21st, 2018, 12:44 PM
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Re: Irony of fate---Sikh separatist coming to tour India as Canada's defence minister

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Originally Posted by sarv_shaktimaan View Post
They (muslim immigrants) are asking Aussies in Australia to not wear bikinis on beach.. dress conservatively. Aussies had to tell them to STFU and go back to their country if they wanted to impose their values on Aussies. Prollem is even if 2-3% are bad seeds, you letting in millions means you have a few thousand guys to track now.

ad hominems will happen since he is acting out the playbook.. same for the guy here.
See this is exactly what must happen! Let the countries decide what the policy should be. STFU is the right answer.
Let them in on your terms. Wont that make more sense?

I dont know Sarvi. It is my personal belief in the human race. We have the ability to love, to nurture, to forgive and also to kill. These are all the different faces of humanity. It has always been this way. Look at history. Every violent ideology has been wiped out. Its just a matter of time. Take nazi's for example.

Can you name a single violent ideology that remained afloat for a long time? Even Islam. It hasnt always been this way.
Its a matter of time. thats all.
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  #25  
Old February 21st, 2018, 01:27 PM
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Re: Irony of fate---Sikh separatist coming to tour India as Canada's defence minister

^^ People are apprehensive because they know the history.. it takes a lot of time and lives to reverse the damage. People know it's better to nip things in the bud than letting them grow.
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  #26  
Old February 22nd, 2018, 03:41 AM
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Re: Irony of fate---Sikh separatist coming to tour India as Canada's defence minister

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See this is exactly what must happen! Let the countries decide what the policy should be. STFU is the right answer.
Let them in on your terms. Wont that make more sense?
does it though? I am waiting for news on how countries are now trampling on their religious sensitivities because people wont cover up on the beach.

In the UK, there are now government funded leisure centres where wearing bikinis is not allowed. Last year there was a hue and cry about certain examinations because they fell in the month of Ramzan! 1 or 2 generations from now, even the kids born and brought up in this country will keep thinking that the government is atrocious because their examinations fall in ramzan - all history and context will be lost.

so... it turns out even STFU is not quite the right answer - may deal with the situation at the time, but in the long run, there is no 'peaceful' solution.
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Old February 22nd, 2018, 03:44 AM
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Re: Irony of fate---Sikh separatist coming to tour India as Canada's defence minister

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Can you name a single violent ideology that remained afloat for a long time? Even Islam. It hasnt always been this way.
Its a matter of time. thats all.
when was Islam not this way? I admit tactics have changed, instead of mughals attacking countries and states with armies, destroying temples and raping women, the new breed is about terrorism...
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  #28  
Old February 22nd, 2018, 03:46 AM
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Re: Irony of fate---Sikh separatist coming to tour India as Canada's defence minister

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Originally Posted by Sane Less View Post
The question here is not ethics but survival. I am a vegetarian... but if stranded somewhere with no food, would I not eat whatever available meat that is there Or will ethics make its point here By being ethical now, you cannot endanger millions of lives of your fore-children. It is as simple as that.
It has come to this, isn't it? question of survival now rather than question of harmony...
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  #29  
Old February 22nd, 2018, 05:48 AM
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Re: Irony of fate---Sikh separatist coming to tour India as Canada's defence minister

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Originally Posted by kkkk View Post
does it though? I am waiting for news on how countries are now trampling on their religious sensitivities because people wont cover up on the beach.

In the UK, there are now government funded leisure centres where wearing bikinis is not allowed. Last year there was a hue and cry about certain examinations because they fell in the month of Ramzan! 1 or 2 generations from now, even the kids born and brought up in this country will keep thinking that the government is atrocious because their examinations fall in ramzan - all history and context will be lost.

so... it turns out even STFU is not quite the right answer - may deal with the situation at the time, but in the long run, there is no 'peaceful' solution.
This is like Trump saying, lets have a "good" gun control in schools. Every teacher must carry a weapon on him/her and every class room is equipped with the semi and the automatic refiles.

You are not addressing the problem. You are attempting to mask it by sending it way some place else where there is every possibility that it will come right back to you.
You need to address the theory behind it.

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Originally Posted by kkkk View Post
when was Islam not this way? I admit tactics have changed, instead of mughals attacking countries and states with armies, destroying temples and raping women, the new breed is about terrorism...
There are a lot of examples like Islam in the past where women were raped, children killed and villages burnt. Why, in our own country the exact same thing happened (British).
From the past, Genghis Khan and Hitler comes to my mind.

Like i said, i am not supporting Islam and its extreme beliefs. I am saying that do not turn your back on people who need help because they "may" in future be an issue. I believe that reasoning is flawed. There will be no difference between you and them if you let a child die or woman raped or a man killed because of a distant "maybe".

Address the issue, educate the newer generations.
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  #30  
Old February 22nd, 2018, 06:32 AM
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Re: Irony of fate---Sikh separatist coming to tour India as Canada's defence minister

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Originally Posted by Aashika View Post
This is like Trump saying, lets have a "good" gun control in schools. Every teacher must carry a weapon on him/her and every class room is equipped with the semi and the automatic refiles.

You are not addressing the problem. You are attempting to mask it by sending it way some place else where there is every possibility that it will come right back to you.
You need to address the theory behind it.
Letting them in and giving them free asylums is not really dealing with the problem either!

I think we both agree the real solution is something somewhere else. we are debating (I thought) about the band-aid of whether to allow 99 in if 1 of the 100 is/can be a bad one.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Aashika View Post
There are a lot of examples like Islam in the past where women were raped, children killed and villages burnt. Why, in our own country the exact same thing happened (British).
From the past, Genghis Khan and Hitler comes to my mind.
errrr.... thats not the question... other religions/communities/rules were like that - agreed. They have changed....

you said however, Islam was not always like that - I dont know of any time when Islam was not like that. British did it or Ghenghis Khan did it at one point does not mean Islam was peaceful at the time.
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