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  #1  
Old January 5th, 2010, 01:55 PM
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Question How do you convey that you are not really required?

Okay here is something I want to share but will leave out specifics for obvious reasons.

Lets say there is a team which has many senior members - by senior I mean they are not only experienced but have been in the company for many years.

Now the stage has been reached that a few of the members in the team are not really open to do things in a new way to address the new challenges to satisfy the customer requirements. No, they are not stopping work or refusing to do the work as per new requirements. But there is a constant set of mini battles to get them to agree on anything and get things moving. Management has hired a few fresh team members who are experienced in their earlier jobs. Now the old timers feel that newcomers are here to walk over them. Well, what else can management do? There are problems in existing product, they need to be addresses, top technical management feels that a new approach needs to be taken to solve these issues, old timers feel no their 'new' approach is the way to go. Management cannot let go of old timers as they have the core knowledge built up over the years. The knowledge is being spread rapidly now to new comers, but its still a long way to go.

I am not in the old timers camp who has problems with the management's proposal to do things in a new way. But how does one convey to the old timers that they are really not required. That they should not try and stop new ideas if they cannot contribute to it. That they should leave us folks who are open to anything alone.
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  #2  
Old January 5th, 2010, 02:04 PM
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Re: How do you convey that you are not really required?

Pick up any book on change management and you will find a million answers.

Really no cut'n' dried solution. Depends on who you are asking the question on behalf of. meaning WHO is going to convey to the old-timers?

Practically, one solution is to separate out the architecture into business logic and other layers. Tell the old timers they are responsible for the business logic portion of the application. This is where they can use their tribal knowledge most effectively. Later on in the project they can be eased into the other layers as the architecture design will already be complete by then based on a newer approach.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 02:09 PM
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Re: How do you convey that you are not really required?

One thing I've noticed amongst some old timers... mostly those over 50. They say or their attitude is "I dont want a career at this stage of life, I just need a job to keep me busy until I retire".
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Old January 5th, 2010, 02:14 PM
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Talking Re: How do you convey that you are not really required?

Re: How do you convey that you are not really required?



Sutradarji, don't do it in open forum. Send Viking a private message so he is not offended.
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  #5  
Old January 5th, 2010, 02:18 PM
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Re: How do you convey that you are not really required?

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Originally Posted by badriprasad View Post
Re: How do you convey that you are not really required?



Sutradarji, don't do it in open forum. Send Viking a private message so he is not offended.
LOL...
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  #6  
Old January 5th, 2010, 02:36 PM
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Re: How do you convey that you are not really required?

Well, if you are senior among the old timers you let them know their opinions have been heard but this is how its going to be done. Tell them to Deal with it.

If the old timers have more clout than you, you voice your opinion until one of the oldies tells you to shut up and deal with how its going to be done.
Then you deal with it
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Old January 5th, 2010, 02:39 PM
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Re: How do you convey that you are not really required?

Quote:
Originally Posted by compukid View Post
Well, if you are senior among the old timers you let them know their opinions have been heard but this is how its going to be done. Tell them to Deal with it.

If the old timers have more clout than you, you voice your opinion until one of the oldies tells you to shut up and deal with how its going to be done.
Then you deal with it
I am not senior by way of number of years in the company. But I have some good ideas which I want to propose and implement because I know they will work. But right now to say anything is like first preparing for a huge battle of explaining and dissecting every damn detail on why I am proposing something.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 02:46 PM
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Re: How do you convey that you are not really required?

Quote:
Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
I am not senior by way of number of years in the company. But I have some good ideas which I want to propose and implement because I know they will work. But right now to say anything is like first preparing for a huge battle of explaining and dissecting every damn detail on why I am proposing something.
Instead of telling them they are not required, why not use their experience to your benefit? Explain to them what you plan to propose and ask them how their experience can improve your proposal. Of course, you have to be ready to change your plans but if you can convince old geezer to help with atleast 50% of what you intended to, you have successfully used your opposition to your advantage

Good luck
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Old January 5th, 2010, 03:17 PM
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Unhappy Re: How do you convey that you are not really required?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar View Post
Instead of telling them they are not required, why not use their experience to your benefit? Explain to them what you plan to propose and ask them how their experience can improve your proposal. Of course, you have to be ready to change your plans but if you can convince old geezer to help with atleast 50% of what you intended to, you have successfully used your opposition to your advantage

Good luck
Yes I can use that tactic with a couple of them, but there is one really .. how should I say it .... fellow who is so damn 'principled' and quotes 'software design principles' and ... you get the picture ... And unfortunately I have to deal with this person for some part of my proposal.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 04:25 PM
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Re: How do you convey that you are not really required?

Quote:
Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
Yes I can use that tactic with a couple of them, but there is one really .. how should I say it .... fellow who is so damn 'principled' and quotes 'software design principles' and ... you get the picture ... And unfortunately I have to deal with this person for some part of my proposal.
I know nothing of software design principles (?) but it appears to an untrained eye that old-timers are comfortably cocooned in a comfort zone. What is lacking here is lack of insight and, agreed clarity of the purposes. Old-timers and fresh members of the team should have in common the ultimate goal or else you are riding a bike with tractor tires.


@Shaktimanbhai.
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बुरे फसें 'मजाल', आ कर जन्नत में ... हमने तो सोचा था, कुछ नया होता होगा!
Stupid opinions ... all mine ... worth 2 cents ... you can have for free with a pinch of salt.
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  #11  
Old January 5th, 2010, 05:13 PM
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Re: How do you convey that you are not really required?

Quote:
Originally Posted by echarcha View Post
Yes I can use that tactic with a couple of them, but there is one really .. how should I say it .... fellow who is so damn 'principled' and quotes 'software design principles' and ... you get the picture ... And unfortunately I have to deal with this person for some part of my proposal.
You let the other experienced geezers convince this guy....he will succumb to peer pressure
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Old January 5th, 2010, 05:14 PM
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Re: How do you convey that you are not really required?

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Originally Posted by dhurandhar View Post
You let the other experienced geezers convince this guy....he will succumb to peer pressure
you mean pressure from Peer Sayyed Saab?
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Old January 6th, 2010, 04:47 AM
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Re: How do you convey that you are not really required?

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Originally Posted by badriprasad View Post
Re: How do you convey that you are not really required?



Sutradarji, don't do it in open forum. Send Viking a private message so he is not offended.
Hee Hee! I'll enjoy coming here even more in that case.
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Old January 6th, 2010, 05:10 AM
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Re: How do you convey that you are not really required?

a) To get the problem clear, if the old-timer's wealth of experience is useful, then one can't really say that they are not wanted.

b) dhurandhar's advice makes sense.. anyway, 'cut along the grain, not across' is an ages-old wisdom.

You have to find a way to carry the old timers with you. Can you define the type of resistance ? Is it simply inertia? politics? insecurity? Each type will have a different solution.
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Old January 6th, 2010, 10:49 AM
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Re: How do you convey that you are not really required?

We faced a similar problem in my previous company. Letting go of old timers means that they would be loosing experience. So what my company did was to re-organize/re-structure the team completely in a way that they retain the expertize, yet detach them from involving into monitory decisions.
I am positive there should be a way to create such a circumstance. see if you can do this.
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