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  #1  
Old August 18th, 2007, 08:55 AM
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N Deal

First of all, it is surprising to see this not being discussed here in the last few days.

India and the US governments are close to signing the 123

Well, as expected, the left parties are up in arms against it.

But even the BJP whic took indo US ties to new heights is opposing it in its current form.

The deal may put certain restrictions on India expanding capacity but also gives a good N Fuel supply which will help reduce the dependence on Petroleum.

i am not aware of the nitty gritties, but since Paks are against the deal, may be it is good for India and US.

And guess as long as the existing stock which is larger than pak's and is some kind of a deterrent with China, is not affected, may be we could do some give and take on future developments

Again, wonder why it is poliically incorrect to be pro america in India (you could be Pro Pak, proChina, etc. but not pro US)
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  #2  
Old August 18th, 2007, 10:51 AM
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Re: N Deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgars
First of all, it is surprising to see this not being discussed here in the last few days.

India and the US governments are close to signing the 123

Well, as expected, the left parties are up in arms against it.

But even the BJP whic took indo US ties to new heights is opposing it in its current form.

The deal may put certain restrictions on India expanding capacity but also gives a good N Fuel supply which will help reduce the dependence on Petroleum.

i am not aware of the nitty gritties, but since Paks are against the deal, may be it is good for India and US.

And guess as long as the existing stock which is larger than pak's and is some kind of a deterrent with China, is not affected, may be we could do some give and take on future developments

Again, wonder why it is poliically incorrect to be pro america in India (you could be Pro Pak, proChina, etc. but not pro US)
Self-reliance is the cornerstone of India's foreign policy regardless of the party in power. It's a miracle that with all levels of prevalent corruption, this cornerstone has remained untouched...until Sonia took the reins

Agreed that the self reliance was not achieved in many a cases (MBT Arjun fiasco amongst others), yet it continued to be atleast a guiding force in making long term decisions

With the current N Deal, India will eventually be addicted to foreign supply of N-Fuel..and guess where will the spent N-Fuel be dumped?...in India of course. With all the lax environmental rules, we could well be poisoning ourselves with something that we don't have antidote for!

USA and USSR can afford to dump their spent fuel deep inside inhabitable terrains of Nevada/Utah and Siberia/Kazakhstan respectively. In Kazakhstan, there is a considerable outcry from locals who have babies born with genetic defects and soil that is unarable. UK/France/Germany bury it deep in their territory or covertly dump it in Africa by bribing their dictators

Nuke energy will not reduce India's dependence on petroleum. Majority of India's electric power generation is thru coal, NOT oil!! Nuke energy is not going to trigger a electric car revolution in India.

I believe India does not import coal...correct me if I am wrong
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Old August 18th, 2007, 02:11 PM
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Re: N Deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgars
First of all, it is surprising to see this not being discussed here in the last few days.

India and the US governments are close to signing the 123

Well, as expected, the left parties are up in arms against it.

But even the BJP whic took indo US ties to new heights is opposing it in its current form.

Dumbass BJP is opposing just because they are in oppossition. They would have struck same deal if they were to sign.

And Commies want their Parents China to benefit out of this deal instead USA.

But did you noticed, MOFO Lalu is not saying anything.
Neither against (ofcourse, he never goes against UPA) nor in defence of MMS and Soniamaata.
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Last edited by AmthaLal; August 18th, 2007 at 02:14 PM.
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Old August 18th, 2007, 03:54 PM
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Re: N Deal

Amthaji
As i foresee it, BJP might walk out and allow the deal to be passed. Not only Lalu, even Sonia is not saying anything.

Dhurji,

There is abundant coal in India, but one can use Uranium also.
BTW, we do import Coking Coal from Ozland.

Again if the deal is so harmful to India wonder why Pak and may be secretly C are jumping over it.

There are many things in the fine print which some fellows in US are opposing and many which people in india are opposing.
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Old August 18th, 2007, 05:55 PM
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Re: N Deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgars
Amthaji
As i foresee it, BJP might walk out and allow the deal to be passed.

Yes I know, And, They will do that.
Not only Lalu, even Sonia is not saying anything.

Read on one of the news site. She already said its a good deal. And praised it too. Not inerested in searching for link for that lady.



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Old August 18th, 2007, 08:28 PM
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Re: N Deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgars
Amthaji
As i foresee it, BJP might walk out and allow the deal to be passed. Not only Lalu, even Sonia is not saying anything.

Dhurji,

There is abundant coal in India, but one can use Uranium also.BTW, we do import Coking Coal from Ozland.

Again if the deal is so harmful to India wonder why Pak and may be secretly C are jumping over it.

There are many things in the fine print which some fellows in US are opposing and many which people in india are opposing.
Where will you dispose spent fuel rods? Think long term and reply

China is against it because it stands to lose business....in the recent past, India bought heavy water from China
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  #7  
Old August 19th, 2007, 05:21 AM
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Re: N Deal

The BJP as always a bunch of crook with the NDA convenor going to the extent of saying that had it been USA/China our PM would have been thrown out of the Parliament and had it been China, he would have been shot...imagine the language these guys use. Its terrible

Since yesterady I have been keeping a good watch on the statements. Everyone opposing says that they have concerns. But what are those concerns? No one has selt out a single concern.

I feel our PM should call thier bluff and resign. God willing he will come out with more seats in the next Parliamnet.

Honestly, with BJP.... there is no right or wrong side, they have only double standards.. they are bad character, misleading and untruthful political party.




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  #8  
Old August 19th, 2007, 09:42 AM
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Re: N Deal

'China's interest is our interest'

The current opposition of the leftist parties -- particularly, the Communist Party of India-Marxist -- to the agreement (the so-called 123 agreement) with the US on civil nuclear co-operation and to India's developing strategic relations with the US takes one's mind back to the days before the visit of Chinese President Hu Jintao to India in November last year.

A Chinese company had won a contract for the construction of a gas pipeline from the Godavari area in Andhra Pradesh. It wanted to bring about 1,000 Chinese engineers to work in the project. The ministry of home affairs and the Intelligence Bureau of the Government of India were not clearing the issue of visas to the Chinese engineers. They asked a number of inconvenient questions as to why it was necessary for the Chinese company to bring in so many of their engineers when unemployed Indian engineers were available.

There was also a paper prepared by the National Security Council Secretariat of the Prime Minister's Office suggesting that proposals for foreign investments in sensitive sectors such as telecommunications from China, Pakistan and Bangladesh should be subjected to a special security vetting.

Sitaram Yechury of the CPI-M, allegedly at the instance of the Chinese embassy in New Delhi, raised a big hue and cry about it and literally forced the Government of India to order the issue of visas to the Chinese engineers and to drop the proposal for a special security vetting for Chinese investment proposals in sensitive sectors.

After Hu's visit was over, Times Now television news channel had invited me to participate in a discussion on the visit. Arnab Goswami of the channel anchored the discussions. D Raja, CPI's member of the Rajya Sabha, participated in the discussions from Delhi. I told Raja: "It is surprising that you pressurised the government to issue visas to 1000 Chinese engineers. You were not bothered about Indian engineers not getting these jobs. If a US company had wanted to bring 1000 American engineers, would you have urged the government to issue visas to them?"

Raja told me: "Mr Raman, you are an eminent person. You should not mislead people by raising such scenarios."

For the last two months, the Chinese authorities have been expressing their concern over reports that India has joined hands with the US, Japan [Images] and Australia to counter the growing Chinese naval power in the region and that the forthcoming naval exercise in the Bay of Bengal involving the navies of these countries plus Singapore is the beginning of this project to counter Chinese naval power and presence in the Bay of Bengal/Indian Ocean region.

It is not without significance that the vigorous campaign of the leftist parties -- particularly of the CPI-M -- against the recently concluded Indo-US agreement on civil nuclear co-operation and against the growing strategic interactions between India and the US in particular has coincided with the beginning of the Chinese campaign against the so-called quadrilateral strategic interaction involving India, Japan, the US and Australia and the naval exercise with the additional involvement of the Singapore navy.

The leftists' campaign against India's relations with the US reflects more China's concerns and interests than those of India. I have never been excited over the Indo-US agreement on civil nuclear co-operation. Nor do I share Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh's [Images] enthusiasm for US President George Bush [Images] and the Indo-US agreement. I am inclined to feel that what we are seeing now is a one-night stand between Dr Singh and Mr Bush. Like most one-night stands, the happy thoughts thereafter will become an embarrassment in course of time.

I also feel -- as I have stated on many occasions in the past -- that we should go slow on the development of our strategic relations with the US, keeping in view the fact that we live right in the midst of the Islamic world, and that about 45 per cent of the world's Muslim population lives in the South Asian region. Ours is still a fragile society and we should not create misgivings in the Muslim community by overlooking their sensitivities on this subject.

Having said that, I also feel that we should not let the leftists dictate our foreign policy and push it in a direction favourable to China. I find it difficult to discount the suspicion that the leftists have mounted their present campaign to promote Chinese and not Indian interests.

After joining the IB in 1967, I went on a visit to Kolkata. Those were the days of China's Cultural Revolution. The Marxists were not yet in power in West Bengal, but were very active. As I was travelling in a taxi from the Dum Dum airport to downtown, I saw the following slogan painted by the Marxists on the walls everywhere: 'China's chairman is our chairman'.

The present day Indian Marxists don't say this, but they do believe that 'China's interest is our Interest'. It is this belief which is behind their present campaign against the Government of India. Their hidden motive should be exposed.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/aug/19raman.htm
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  #9  
Old August 19th, 2007, 12:23 PM
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Re: N Deal

Dhurji, SPent fueal could be a serious problem. But so would be greenhouse gases if we use our coal faster. Again will do some more R & D and come back

On a lighter note, we could dump it on P
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Old August 20th, 2007, 04:30 AM
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Re: N Deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgars
Dhurji, SPent fueal could be a serious problem. But so would be greenhouse gases if we use our coal faster. Again will do some more R & D and come back

On a lighter note, we could dump it on P
There is a technology available (of course it cuts down profits) to control pollution due to combustion. With advances in understanding of fluid mechanics of the reactive flow and available computing speed, there is a finite possibility for the maturity of this technology in next decade or two.

There is no known technology to eliminate radioactivity from radioactive matter...currently the idea is to clad the spent fuel rods in lead and concrete and bury it deep somewhere.

Any elementary physics text will tell you that radioactive matter decays exponentially with time and the half life is atleast on the order of centuries or more
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Old June 5th, 2008, 04:01 AM
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Re: N Deal

Dhurji, Long time since i commented on this, but Reducing pollution in case of thermal power means cutting down sulphur, ash (Fly ash, not the Rai!) , etc.
The basic equation C + O2 --> CO2 + heat still stays and the greenhouse emissions continue.

The country to note here is France - It gets 60-70% of its power from nuclear sources. And probably it dumos nuclear waste in some water and disposes.

Well, it is a hobsons choice. Nuclear waste is costly to manage, but it will damage only a part of planet. Unlike Greenhouse emissions, whch are slow, but might chaneg weather for the wprse.
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Old June 5th, 2008, 06:13 PM
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Re: N Deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgars
Dhurji, Long time since i commented on this, but Reducing pollution in case of thermal power means cutting down sulphur, ash (Fly ash, not the Rai!) , etc.
The basic equation C + O2 --> CO2 + heat still stays and the greenhouse emissions continue.

The country to note here is France - It gets 60-70% of its power from nuclear sources. And probably it dumos nuclear waste in some water and disposes.

Well, it is a hobsons choice. Nuclear waste is costly to manage, but it will damage only a part of planet. Unlike Greenhouse emissions, whch are slow, but might chaneg weather for the wprse.
the global warming is a myth...at best a transient warming effect. Nobody has studied nuclear pollution in France. Just because it does not appear in media does not mean the pollution is not there. It will be left to future frogs (french) to deal with the nuclear mess
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Old June 5th, 2008, 08:07 PM
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Re: N Deal

Just got this idea....

With so many rockets being launched... Why dont all nuclear power generating countries dump all the waste in a rocket and blast it into space... let it decay there for the next 3 centuries without harming anyone.
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Old June 6th, 2008, 12:17 AM
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Re: N Deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by deshpremi
Just got this idea....

With so many rockets being launched... Why dont all nuclear power generating countries dump all the waste in a rocket and blast it into space... let it decay there for the next 3 centuries without harming anyone.
good idea...imagine an accident happening when the rocket is still in earth's atmosphere....in any case...carrying radioactive fuel etc is banned as per the agreement reached by all the countries
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Old June 6th, 2008, 09:38 AM
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Re: N Deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by vyomkeshsaxena
in any case...carrying radioactive fuel etc is banned as per the agreement reached by all the countries
which agreement is that? i never heard of this! what if they camouflage it as a nuclear warhead? that isnt illegal? lots of countries now have BMs with nuclear warheads? all they have to do is notify other countries that it is a test.

however, i do agree with you that this is dangerous if there is an accident while the rocket is still in earth's atmosphere.
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