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  #76  
Old September 14th, 2008, 06:58 PM
jammy69 jammy69 is offline
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

Har Har Mahadev,
I would love if this epic can pe proved to have really occured.Epics and Religious books were castly modified to give Brahmins more power.For example i will tell you see Ramayan.In the most ancient form there is no telling that Ram told Lakshman to go and take lessons from Ravan but the future persons brahmins it.
Even with our Harappa civilization that is found which is 3500 years old and almost the same time as is said that Mahabharta occured(One thing i wonder how come we lost all the technology of the Atomic bows and arrows and other things all of a sudden) there is no telling that there was a caste system.
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  #77  
Old September 14th, 2008, 07:07 PM
jammy69 jammy69 is offline
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by Sane Less View Post
I am really surprised that you actually put faith in your school history books
To some extent i do but there are some answers that need to be given.For me i am a believer of one super power.I believe in Vedas becz i know tis power and even according to it there were no GODS.It was only later that some people started manipulating it and then we had many GODS.For me there is one supreme power and that is all.
Even in todays world you see the Brahmins are still moulding the epics and making it work there way so they could make a living.You read 5 mahabharta and you will have 5 different versions and 5 different scripts.
If at all we had the original manuscripts of vedas we could have known the real susbtance of it.
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  #78  
Old September 14th, 2008, 11:49 PM
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by HarHarMahaDev View Post
Please drop the know-it-all attitude

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarHarMahaDev View Post
But let me answer your question
duh

I asked you a question cause I didn't know the answer. What dictionary do you use ... HarHarbhai?




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Originally Posted by HarHarMahaDev View Post
I don't have an answer to your question.
makes us human. We cannot know everything so when in doubt you search for people who do. Its sad that my constant mention of Krantibhai in this thread causes you indigestion. Krantibhai is one such person here at this site who knows about matters related to vedas and jyotishshastra. He knows what most here don't.

Now I know ... you are an expert too ... warms my heart. Its good to have two of everything.

We must always search for people who can teach us what we cant and don't know. Why ... take yourself for a perfect example ... I have always respected your expertise in matters related to finances, never hesitated to express my fondness for you.

More later ...
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  #79  
Old September 15th, 2008, 12:06 AM
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by Sane Less View Post
I am sure that I can provide a simple answer to that... they turned to jyotishi when they realized that people are getting smarter everyday... and they are getting less and less alms. They needed something to hold out on people... and they pretended they can predict the future... and tried to make it as scientific as you could in those days... which was pretty much zilch.
Sanelessbhai ... you watched A Wednesday ... you felt good. It was a feel good movie. I enjoyed it too.

Munshi Premchand was a fine writer. He was not a historian but story teller who wrote fiction. And as the fim A Wednesday, storytellers play upon the emotions of people. Munshi Premchand picked up evils of the day and exaggerated everything to make people feel good. People read Godan and felt very good ... others are coping it tougher.

Its really sad that most of us grew up reading Munshiji's stories of stereotypical image of bad brahmins who demand from a poor window the last and only cow she has left. Cruel brahmin was pigment of a writer's fertile mind and imagination.

Premchand was a story teller who wrote fiction. Fine ... Sanelessbhai ... if I were to subscribe to your theory of a stereotypical bad brahmin image of Munshi Premchand's fictional stories ... does that satisfy our curiosity about how Jyotishshastra came in to being? Please reconsider ...
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  #80  
Old September 15th, 2008, 03:53 AM
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by tantric_yogi View Post
Sanelessbhai ... you watched A Wednesday ... you felt good. It was a feel good movie. I enjoyed it too.

Munshi Premchand was a fine writer. He was not a historian but story teller who wrote fiction. And as the fim A Wednesday, storytellers play upon the emotions of people. Munshi Premchand picked up evils of the day and exaggerated everything to make people feel good. People read Godan and felt very good ... others are coping it tougher.

Its really sad that most of us grew up reading Munshiji's stories of stereotypical image of bad brahmins who demand from a poor window the last and only cow she has left. Cruel brahmin was pigment of a writer's fertile mind and imagination.

Premchand was a story teller who wrote fiction. Fine ... Sanelessbhai ... if I were to subscribe to your theory of a stereotypical bad brahmin image of Munshi Premchand's fictional stories ... does that satisfy our curiosity about how Jyotishshastra came in to being? Please reconsider ...
Don't drag Premchand into it...he was a social writer...Gorky of India....he wrote for his times.....he had his own ideologies and i am fine with it.... Caste system was one of the biggest issues of that time (alas things haven't improved much since)..... brahmnis and zamindars were essentially exploiters..... many of his stories are very similar in plot and characters....but that is another topic of discussion...
If you go through the history.....Kings need not be Kshatriyas all the time.... Chandragupta was not a kshatriya....neither were kings of Nanda dynast/gupta dynasty... Shungs were brahmins.... In my native place brahmins were kings.....

If i remember correctly it is mentioned in Manusmriti that Brahmins are not supposed to keep any wealth at all... they could keep the means of subsistence that last three days only... but it was never so....
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  #81  
Old September 15th, 2008, 04:46 AM
HarHarMahaDev HarHarMahaDev is offline
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by tantric_yogi View Post
duh

I asked you a question cause I didn't know the answer. What dictionary do you use ... HarHarbhai?


makes us human. We cannot know everything so when in doubt you search for people who do. Its sad that my constant mention of Krantibhai in this thread causes you indigestion. Krantibhai is one such person here at this site who knows about matters related to vedas and jyotishshastra. He knows what most here don't.

Now I know ... you are an expert too ... warms my heart. Its good to have two of everything.

We must always search for people who can teach us what we cant and don't know. Why ... take yourself for a perfect example ... I have always respected your expertise in matters related to finances, never hesitated to express my fondness for you.

More later ...
You need to focus on the message and not on the messenger!
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  #82  
Old September 15th, 2008, 06:13 AM
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by HarHarMahaDev View Post
You need to focus on the message and not on the messenger!
Can you separate the two? Is it possible for two to phunction separately and independent of each other? Shouldn't a messenger be held accountable for the message? Isn't it that a message depends upon the messenger for validation?

Start another thread and I will help you tackle. I am good at it ... the best in business. I will tell you 2+2 equals 6 and help you convince me why it ought to be 4.

Good night ... going home.
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  #83  
Old September 15th, 2008, 09:33 AM
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by tantric_yogi View Post
Sanelessbhai ... you watched A Wednesday ... you felt good. It was a feel good movie. I enjoyed it too.

Munshi Premchand was a fine writer. He was not a historian but story teller who wrote fiction. And as the fim A Wednesday, storytellers play upon the emotions of people. Munshi Premchand picked up evils of the day and exaggerated everything to make people feel good. People read Godan and felt very good ... others are coping it tougher.

Its really sad that most of us grew up reading Munshiji's stories of stereotypical image of bad brahmins who demand from a poor window the last and only cow she has left. Cruel brahmin was pigment of a writer's fertile mind and imagination.

Premchand was a story teller who wrote fiction. Fine ... Sanelessbhai ... if I were to subscribe to your theory of a stereotypical bad brahmin image of Munshi Premchand's fictional stories ... does that satisfy our curiosity about how Jyotishshastra came in to being? Please reconsider ...
Tantangaye pai, what word in my post caused you to think that my theory was about stereotypical bad brahmins All I said was that when people were becoming smart... the brahmins had to get smarter... that was the only way. You got to have a hold over someone... you got to inculcate that feeling that you are needed... else you go extinct. It is a simple darwinian philosophy.

In today's world, when people really really are very smart... the smartest person is the pope... go figure.
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  #84  
Old September 15th, 2008, 09:40 AM
HarHarMahaDev HarHarMahaDev is offline
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by tantric_yogi View Post
Can you separate the two? Is it possible for two to phunction separately and independent of each other? Shouldn't a messenger be held accountable for the message? Isn't it that a message depends upon the messenger for validation?

Start another thread and I will help you tackle. I am good at it ... the best in business. I will tell you 2+2 equals 6 and help you convince me why it ought to be 4.

Good night ... going home.
If that's the case, prepared to be judged too. Don't scurry away anytime you are put on the stand.

The only thing I find you good at, is in obfuscating simple issues. You add no real value to any discussion but prance around like a joker and pretends to be the final authority.

If you read thru this thread again, you will see it. You flip-flop on both issues, attacking my character while singing odes of kranti. No problem for me, but definitely noise for somebody who wants to focus on the debate. I prefer discussing issues with ppl like kranti who have a clearly stated position, than a wannabe-politician like u.
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  #85  
Old September 15th, 2008, 12:56 PM
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

i am amazed at the tags attached to this thread, echarcha bhai..i donty think its really funny for a discussion forum.
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  #86  
Old September 15th, 2008, 02:26 PM
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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i am amazed at the tags attached to this thread, echarcha bhai..i donty think its really funny for a discussion forum.
I agree too.

This is not the only one thread where ppl have fukked up the tags.

I mean, C'mon ppl, please refrain from this kind of nonsense.

Chabhai, delete all the idiotic tags plz.
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  #87  
Old September 15th, 2008, 02:54 PM
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

Sanelessbhai ... HarHarbhai ... Chitralaji

thanks

get back in couple of hours
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  #88  
Old September 15th, 2008, 05:03 PM
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by chitrala View Post
Don't drag Premchand into it...he was a social writer...Gorky of India....he wrote for his times.....he had his own ideologies and i am fine with it.... Caste system was one of the biggest issues of that time (alas things haven't improved much since)..... brahmnis and zamindars were essentially exploiters..... many of his stories are very similar in plot and characters....but that is another topic of discussion...
Wow ... wow ... wow!!! Sir, while you were shifting pages of Shakespeare's tobeees and donttobees and kissa-e-laila-majnu ... we were being given dose after dose of Munshiji's miserable books. He picked up garbage of our society and added his own personal miseries and people loved it cause it was not happening to them.

We grew up hating everything brahmin, culture, family, hinduism thanks to curriculum books like Godan, It has taken me years to shakeoff images created by fiction writers such as Munshiji. There are millions of men like me with impressions still imposed intact. Every religion and faith got its fair share of good and bad ... good priests and bad priests of Christianity. Good maulvis and bad. Why the fuck do we expect our religion to be free of scum? But to turn deeds of some rascals among the brahmins in to a gurumantra for every Hindu to recite every given opportunity is a crime and Munshijis books ought to be banned from schools.

I am wasting my tem ... you don't even know what I am talking about.
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Jamke Dushmani Karo Humse ... Magar Bas Itni Gunjaesh Hai Aapse
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LLKC ... pure and unadulterated ... LLKC!

दूर से देखने पर तो यही लगता था ... 'वाह! वहाँ क्या मजा होता होगा!'
बुरे फसें 'मजाल', आ कर जन्नत में ... हमने तो सोचा था, कुछ नया होता होगा!
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  #89  
Old September 15th, 2008, 05:04 PM
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

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Originally Posted by jammy69 View Post
There is a misconception in some minds that Hindu scriptures sanction the caste system.

Vedas, the proud possession of mankind, are the foundation of Hinduism. Vedas are all-embracing, and treat the entire humanity with the same respect and dignity. Vedas speak of nobility of entire humanity (krinvanto vishvam aryam), and do not sanction any caste system or birth-based caste system. Mantra, numbered 10-13-1 in Rig Veda, addresses the entire humanity as divine children (shrunvantu vishve amrutsya putraha). Innumerable mantras in Vedas emphasise oneness, universal brotherhood, harmony, happiness, affection, unity and commonality of entire humanity.

A few illustrations are given here. Vide Mantra numbered 5-60-5 in Rig Veda, the divine poet declares, “All men are brothers; no one is big, no one is small. All are equal.” Mantra numbered 16.15 in Yajur Veda reiterates that all men are brothers; no one is superior or inferior. Mantra numbered 10-191-2 in Rig Veda calls upon humanity to be united to have a common speech and a common mind. Mantra numbered 3-30-1 in Atharva Veda enjoins upon all humans to be affectionate and to love one another as the cow loves her newly-born calf. Underlining unity and harmony still further, Mantra numbered 3-30-6 in Atharva Veda commands humankind to dine together, and be as firmly united as the spokes attached to the hub of a chariot wheel.

The Bhagavad Gita, which contains the essence of Vedas and Upanishads, has many shlokas that echo the Vedic doctrine of oneness of humanity. In shloka numbered V (29), Lord Krishna declares that He is the friend of all creatures (suhridam sarva bhutanam) whereas shloka numbered IX (29) reiterates that the Lord has the same affection for all creatures, and whosoever remembers the Lord, resides in the Lord, and the Lord resides in him. Shloka numbered XVIII (61) declares that God resides in every heart (ishwar sarva bhutanam hrudyeshe Arjun tishthti).

Guna (Aptitude) and Karma (Actions)

Hindu scriptures speak only about ‘varna’ which means to ‘select’ (one’s profession, etc.) and which is not caste or birth-based.

As per shloka numbered IV (13) of the Bhagavad Gita, depending upon a person’s guna (aptitude) and karma (actions), there are four varnas. As per this shloka, a person’s varna is determined by his guna and karma, and not by his birth. Chapter XIV of the Bhagavad Gita specifies three gunas viz. satva (purity), rajas (passion and attachment) and tamas (ignorance). These three gunas are present in every human in different proportions, and determine the varna of every person. Accordingly, depending on one’s guna and karma, every individual is free to select his own varna. Consequently, if their gunas and karmas are different, even members of the same family can belong to different varnas. Notwithstanding the differences in guna and karma of different individuals, Vedas treat the entire humanity with the same respect and do not sanction any caste system or birth-based caste system.

Veda is the Foundation

Hinduism is all-embracing and grants the same respect to all humans, and anything to the contrary anywhere is not sanctioned by the Vedas. Being divine revelation, the shrutis (Vedas) are the ultimate authority on Dharma, and represent its eternal principles whereas being human recapitulations, smritis (recollections) can play only a subordinate role. As per shloka numbered (6) of Chapter 2 in Manu Smriti, “Veda is the foundation of entire Dharma.” Shloka numbered 2(13) of Manu Smriti specifies that whenever shruti (vedas) and smritis differ, stipulation of Vedas will prevail over smritis. In view of this position, anything discriminatory in Manu Smriti or anywhere else is anti-Veda, and therefore, is not sanctioned by Hinduism and has subsequently been inserted with unholy intentions, and deserves to be weeded out.

Besides, precise codification of Hinduism in one book is indispensable to make Hinduism easier to be understood by a layman. For this codification, appropriate mantras of Vedas and Upanishads, and selected shlokas in the Ramayana and the Mahabharata (which also includes the Bhagavad Gita), etc. will provide the basic material.

Role of Media

In order to usher in a casteless and harmonious society, the all-embracing and universal message of Vedas has to be followed and spread.

Both the print and electronic media play an important role in a country’s life. They should contribute their mite to unite various sections of the society. But in India, most of the media are unwittingly strengthening caste and communal divisions. By publishing divisive articles and describing political leaders and electorates, achievers and sports persons, and even wrong-doers and their victims as members of a particular caste or community, the media is strengthening the divisions instead of unifying the society. The media should play a positive role so that there is amity all around.

Let Your Hearts be One

Anyone believing in the caste system is violating the Vedic command of oneness of entire humanity. Although the first known poem in the world appeared as the first mantra in Rig Veda, and though the Vedas and Upanishads contain the sublimest thoughts in the sublimest language, because of a faulty education system, most of the educated Indians are ignorant of their rich heritage contained in the Vedas and Upanishads. Most Indians do not know Sanskrit, the language of Vedic literature. Many persons do not know even the meaning of their Sanskrit names. By learning Sanskrit one can read the Vedas, though even translated Vedic literature can be studied.

We have to ensure that we do not lose our rich Vedic heritage as it would amount ot losing our identity. To ensure the survival of our Vedic heritage, and to bring about unity and harmony in society, it is imperative that the all-embracing message of the Vedes is practised and propagated.


Jammy....are these your thoughts?

Otherwise put up a link.
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Old September 15th, 2008, 05:13 PM
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Re: I am Kanya raashi, passing through a worst phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sane Less View Post
Tantangaye pai, what word in my post caused you to think that my theory was about stereotypical bad brahmins All I said was that when people were becoming smart... the brahmins had to get smarter... that was the only way. You got to have a hold over someone... you got to inculcate that feeling that you are needed... else you go extinct. It is a simple darwinian philosophy.

In today's world, when people really really are very smart... the smartest person is the pope... go figure.
Sanelessbhai ... but they ... the brahmins ... already held the hold. Remember karmas of past life shit and how about you didn't donate x number of cows to a brahmin in past life so now you must pay in this life?

You mean Rishi Birghu went through all the research of amassing thousands of horoscopes just so that for thousands of years his kind will hold the hunter over an average Hindu? I don't think so.

Let's move backward ... for a thousand years invaders ruled India ... I don't believe no bull shit about Akbar being a fair ruler. They were in India to spread the religion by conversions and any way then can and they did. I am thinking ... all it would have taken a doorbell from a poor man to accuse local brahmin of cruelty for Aurangzeb to hang all the brahmins his sipahis rounded up in the city.

Sanelessbhai ... I think you know where I am going with this.
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