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  #1  
Old June 6th, 2005, 10:21 AM
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Sambhog se Samadhi ki aur

I think a few folks on echarcha have benefitted from the attrition based learning style of dhurandhar....and this thread is meant to introduce some of "Yogi" folks to elementary concepts of "Tantra"

As usual, feel free to correct/criticize me where you (the reader) thinks fit

Tantra is an all accepting philosophy....just as Yoga emphasizes renunciation...Tantra emphasizes acceptance.

Yogi seeks union with God by practicing celibacy....Tantric on other hand uses every opportunity he comes across to seek union with God.

Strangely enough, Yogi's supreme deity is Vishnu (who doesn't renounce anything)....while Tantric's supreme deity is Shankar (who has renounced and is found in cemetery)

Just as there are fake Yogis....there are fake Tantrics who have distorted the real meaning of Tantra into orgy of sex and flesh eating

Have any echarchans attempted/experienced going beyond mind during orgasm? If yes, please support this thread at opportune times. If not, you need to read:

Sambhog se Samadhi ki aur by Osho
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Last edited by dhurandhar; June 6th, 2005 at 01:12 PM. Reason: incorrect spelling
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Old June 6th, 2005, 01:24 PM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

i think the theory of this is that for a split second during the male orgasm the mind goes so completely blank that it is possible to see or experience god during this miniscule period of time. if you'll pardon the pun i personally think this is bollocks

by this theory women would have a vast advantage over men, having the ability to achieve multiple orgasms all day long women should therefore be able to see god several times a day if they so wished.

thus, by the law of probability alone there should be several thousand women in the world who have seen god whilst otherwise preoccupied with a vibrator
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Old June 6th, 2005, 02:05 PM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by vakil sahib
i think the theory of this is that for a split second during the male orgasm the mind goes so completely blank that it is possible to see or experience god during this miniscule period of time. if you'll pardon the pun i personally think this is bollocks

by this theory women would have a vast advantage over men, having the ability to achieve multiple orgasms all day long women should therefore be able to see god several times a day if they so wished.

thus, by the law of probability alone there should be several thousand women in the world who have seen god whilst otherwise preoccupied with a vibrator
'kil pai....the theory is correct...but what you describe thereafter is pretty stereotypical criticism...not that it is wrong...but incorrect implementation of a theory
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Old June 6th, 2005, 04:52 PM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by vakil sahib
i think the theory of this is that for a split second during the male orgasm the mind goes so completely blank that it is possible to see or experience god
Yes and no. You don’t see or meet one ... you become one. Dhurunderbhai, I believe is referring to left hand path or tantric-sex adopted by the the westerners, mixing occult with the spirituality, fun, sex and desire fulfillment.

Vama marga if practiced in accordance with the laws of yoga practices packs a punch so serious that it can blow a practictioner’s mind ... pun un-intended. This here is some serious ass-kicker and no fun and sex.

By the way ... seriously speaking ... real Vama Marga of left hand path even if it involves sex is no picnic in the park. It is a bloody serious business ... it is no bloody phun.

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Old June 6th, 2005, 05:39 PM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by tantric_yogi
Yes and no. You don’t see or meet one ... you become one. Dhurunderbhai, I believe is referring to left hand path or tantric-sex adopted by the the westerners, mixing occult with the spirituality, fun, sex and desire fulfillment.

Vama marga if practiced in accordance with the laws of yoga practices packs a punch so serious that it can blow a practictioner’s mind ... pun un-intended. This here is some serious ass-kicker and no fun and sex.

By the way ... seriously speaking ... real Vama Marga of left hand path even if it involves sex is no picnic in the park. It is a bloody serious business ... it is no bloody phun.

In all paths...there are exoteric practices and then there are esoteric practices...exoteric practices sometimes are deliberately made to ward off commoners (tantra/w skull/cemetery/screwing) or attract commoners (yoga/bhajan--kirtan etc)

On esoteric level, tantra is all about "love" while yoga is all about "knowledge"

The mark of an enlightened person is that compassion and knowledge are so embodied that they are inseparable

For e.g....when an unenlightened person has heightened emotions...his knowledgewise performance ebbs..consider when you are solving a complex problem...it is imperative that you not be overcome with emotions..else it muddles thinking....but for an enlightened person, its all the same...he/she can solve complex problems while being in state of deep compassion or joy
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Old June 6th, 2005, 07:37 PM
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Re: Sambhog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
Have any echarchans attempted/experienced going beyond mind during orgasm? If yes, please support this thread at opportune times. If not, you need to read:

Sambhog se Samadhi ki aur by Osho
it happens for few seconds only

but pl do'nt misunderstand meaning of Samadhi..
you ca'nt experience god in few seconds....through a wrong way..
osho just described...how person may feel when he is in real Samadhi...
there are also some other yogic ways to feel same pleasure....

Last edited by max de Indiana; June 6th, 2005 at 07:39 PM.
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Old June 6th, 2005, 07:52 PM
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Re: Sambhog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by max de Indiana
it happens for few seconds only

but pl do'nt misunderstand meaning of Samadhi..
you ca'nt experience god in few seconds....through a wrong way..
osho just described...how person may feel when he is in real Samadhi...
there are also some other yogic ways to feel same pleasure....
Yes. I do agree with you ... exception being left hand path of Vama Marga being one of the easiest (???) and most enjoyable ... to be one with the creator ... even though as you said ... for few seconds!


Dhurunderbhai, I was thinking more of Kundalini raising yoga practices ... one of the most potent (edit: and dangerous) forms of Yoga.
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बुरे फसें 'मजाल', आ कर जन्नत में ... हमने तो सोचा था, कुछ नया होता होगा!
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Old June 6th, 2005, 09:15 PM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

I am still waiting for an example of just one person who has attained Samadhi by this way and that too not for years but just for hours ... even then please provide a conclusive example ...

Sexual Pleasures never will lead to salvation ...At the bare minimum, to understand God one needs to rise above passion & ignorance, let alone reach a mode of goodness.

As mentioned earlier in some other thread, by your logic prostitutes, gigolos, and porn stars should have appeared to been atleast in the mode of goodness, let alone being in a state of samadhi.

--LandYA
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Old June 7th, 2005, 12:22 AM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

edit: Landyabhai ... please do not quote this reply. I might be tempted to edit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by landyaBhai
I am still waiting for an example of just one person who has attained Samadhi by this way and that too not for years but just for hours ... even then please provide a conclusive example ...

Sexual Pleasures never will lead to salvation ...At the bare minimum, to understand God one needs to rise above passion & ignorance, let alone reach a mode of goodness.

As mentioned earlier in some other thread, by your logic prostitutes, gigolos, and porn stars should have appeared to been atleast in the mode of goodness, let alone being in a state of samadhi.

--LandYA
Landyabhai ... it is difficult to explain tantric yoga to a single brahamchari if no imposible.

You waiting for on example? You are in for a long wait. Let Dhurenderbhai deliberate on the part cause tantric sex is not samadhi. It is not samadhi.

It is a sample ... oneness resulting from tantric sex is a sampler ... lasting from few seconds to few minutes the max. A miniscule sample of what great Rishis and sages experienced after years of Samadhi.

Prostitutes, gigolos and porn stars have sex ... this is not about sex ... atleast not the kind of sex you are referring to. We speak of tantric sex ... north pole and south pole!!!

Yes ... it is true. Tantric sex rituals are about sex and the ecstasy of sex. But tantric sex is also about how a man and a woman in love can get most of the things they want from life; success, good health, serenity and (now, please close your eyes before reading next sentence)a 24-hour long sexual high!

Tantric Sex, Vama Marga, left hand path ... are as old as our Hinduism itself. Our ancestors, the Vedic Hindus had, I believe, a very level-headed view of the sex; to them it was an interesting subject ... therefore, they inquired in to it ... with the same unswerving zeal, doggedness, they gave to mathematics, physics, phonetics, and of course physical phitness or Hatha Yoga.

In other words ... same people who have given the world and left us with concept of zero, atomic theory, world's most phonetic alphabet and Hatha Yoga, also gifted us with the science of ecstasy ... THEY CALLED IT TANTRA!

You seem to know a lot of an and about Yoga ... good ... cause Tantra and Yoga have much in common ... I am willing to go as far as to describe both complete psycho-physical systems aimed at the perfection of us human beings. Both require a number of varied sub-disciplines, which provide a path to (sorry, make it a choice of paths) attain objective.

The monks and Rishis and Sages you refer to in your replies often ... choose the path of worship (Bhakti Yoga), physically alert use the path of exercises (Hatha Yoga) ... and so on and on. Similarly, there are multiple, interconnected paths afforded by Tantra ... like the path of sound, visualizations (Landyabhai, I think we have tackled visualization system of yoga in some thread), mathematical patterns and (please close your eyes ... yes, again) SEXUAL INTERCOURSE!

Object of sex act in Tantra is not the ecstatic pleasure of sexual intercourse ... but the "oneness” man and woman (in love) experience when they are in such a state of sexual high. The ecstasy becomes the means to the all important "oneness" end. And, this dear friend Landyabhai ... is the state of Tantric "oneness" which is out of this world ... a mind-blowing experience. Time ceases to be ... colors and sounds become vivid ... intensely vivid ... your sense of smell becomes like sort of animal keen, you know what I mean ... your tongue savors subtle tastes you never knew existed. This is not it ... Landyabhai ... this is not it. This is just the beginning of your tantric journey.

How do you eksplen all this to a confirmed brahamchari? As I said ... difficult but not imposible. That is why in the western version of tantric-sex they have incorporated masturbation. ROFLMAO ... Landyabhai ... no offence.

Enough ... I think.
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बुरे फसें 'मजाल', आ कर जन्नत में ... हमने तो सोचा था, कुछ नया होता होगा!
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Old June 7th, 2005, 01:31 AM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

ecstasy during sexual intercourse can lead to "oneness" with the partner. but to equate this union to a union with god (or to even become god), for a split second- yeh baat hajam nahin hoti yaar

no, i am with landya on this one. sexual ecstasy can lead to a heightened state of awareness , bliss, etc but not to god, imho

the same can be said of drug use. tantrics have used drugs to lead to a state of heightened awareness on the grounds that this can lead to an awareness of god. how many have done so whilst stoned out of their heads and getting their lingams rubbed? exactly none, i would say.
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Old June 7th, 2005, 02:39 AM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by vakil sahib
ecstasy during sexual intercourse can lead to "oneness" with the partner. but to equate this union to a union with god (or to even become god), for a split second- yeh baat hajam nahin hoti yaar

no, i am with landya on this one. sexual ecstasy can lead to a heightened state of awareness , bliss, etc but not to god, imho

the same can be said of drug use. tantrics have used drugs to lead to a state of heightened awareness on the grounds that this can lead to an awareness of god. how many have done so whilst stoned out of their heads and getting their lingams rubbed? exactly none, i would say.
This is not about nirvana ... this is about living. This is not about salvation ... this is about living life to the hilt. This is not about union with a God because for few seconds or couple of minutes ... YOU ARE THE GOD!

Vakil Sahib ... of course you are with Landyabhai on this one. This is not for brahamcharis and this is not for people in late fifties, sixties or seventies. This is for young men like Dhurenderbhai and young women like Maxiben. This requires stamina. This requires will. This requires a MAN!





jk ... I know vakil Sahib you are in your early twenties. Where are you these days? Dikhayee nahee dete.
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बुरे फसें 'मजाल', आ कर जन्नत में ... हमने तो सोचा था, कुछ नया होता होगा!
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Old June 7th, 2005, 04:12 AM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by landyaBhai
I am still waiting for an example of just one person who has attained Samadhi by this way and that too not for years but just for hours ... even then please provide a conclusive example ...

Sexual Pleasures never will lead to salvation ...At the bare minimum, to understand God one needs to rise above passion & ignorance, let alone reach a mode of goodness.

As mentioned earlier in some other thread, by your logic prostitutes, gigolos, and porn stars should have appeared to been atleast in the mode of goodness, let alone being in a state of samadhi.

--LandYA
LandYA...how can you deny the possibility of a prostitute/gigolo/porn star being enlightened??

Nowhere in SBG or other scriptures, it says that the doors of the heavens are closed to prostitutes/gigolos/porn stars

LandYA...my suggestion is to keep your mind open

"Na Jaane Kis Bhes mein, Narayan Mil Jaaye"
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Last edited by dhurandhar; June 7th, 2005 at 04:57 AM.
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Old June 7th, 2005, 04:23 AM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhurandhar
LandYA...how can you deny the possibility of a prostitute/gigolo/porn star not being enlightened??

Nowhere in SBG or other scriptures, it says that the doors of the heavens are closed to prostitutes/gigolos/porn stars

LandYA...my suggestion is to keep your mind open

"Na Jaane Kis Bhes mein, Narayan Mil Jaaye"
not only the mind- in order to attain narayan it seems that one should keep one's legs open too
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Old June 7th, 2005, 04:38 AM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

People define god as good/bad, to me everything is god , "The Good, the bad and the ugly" . Every thought EVERYTHING, act of making love is as much god as anything else.

Some perform pooja to god thru bhajans some thru meditation some thru sex, everything is a pooja to god.

Read/Listen to Shivamanaspooja.

I dont see any logic why a prostitute cannot experience god (when he/she is part of god)

As souls we have no gender (male/female) and so does god hence the concept of Shiva-Parvati forming Ardhanaarinateshwar, ..etc. The union signifies the soul becoming god again.

Tantuji thanks for that info. on tantra pretty interesting.
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Old June 7th, 2005, 05:05 AM
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Re: Sambog se Samadhi ki aur

[quote=tantric_yogi]This is not about nirvana ... this is about living. This is not about salvation ... this is about living life to the hilt. This is not about union with a God because for few seconds or couple of minutes ... [quote]

experienced Tantriks can prolong the orgasm to last for days...Yogis practice semen retention by not entering a vagina....Tantriks go a step further and enter the vagina...reach the orgasm and then not let the semen out.

What a Tantrik seeks to do is to energize that Chakra by reaching orgasm and then channel the "energy" upward/inward instead of outward.

but as with any path...it requires a lot of work and patience to get there...Tantra is not easier than Yoga...its actually more difficult..but I had to start this thread to make "Yogi" folks aware that there are other paths.

My principle is that one has to consider and know all the options before choosing one....but once a path is chosen, one should not waver from the path
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Last edited by dhurandhar; June 7th, 2005 at 05:08 AM.
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